New British Made Air Rifle

[look no hands]

Well I'm sure people would be interested if said new company can produce the long awaited "Air Arms break barrel" we all desire and if it has all the bits and bobs inside and out that we all drool over then I'm sure they would have a good chance of success.

And does it always have to be a PCP, there are far too many PCP's on the market as there is and most of the top quality ones are already made by British companies.

Pete

[TonyL]

Well I'm sure people would be interested if said new company can produce the long awaited "Air Arms break barrel" we all desire and if it has all the bits and bobs inside and out that we all drool over then I'm sure they would have a good chance of success.

And does it always have to be a PCP, there are far too many PCP's on the market as there is and most of the top quality ones are already made by British companies.

Pete

Never mind a new company, I think there would be a market for a new, high quality British break barrel from either the Air Arms or BSA stable. It wouldn't even need to be anything totally new or revolutionary, just a 25mm bore, sturdy barrel hinge and lock up and CD / Rekord stylee trigger and two latch rod lengths for UK / unlimited power markets....job done.

[derekj]

Never mind a new company, I think there would be a market for a new, high quality British break barrel from either the Air Arms or BSA stable. It wouldn't even need to be anything totally new or revolutionary, just a 25mm bore, sturdy barrel hinge and lock up and CD / Rekord stylee trigger and two latch rod lengths for UK / unlimited power markets....job done.

And be price set to within £500...oh and have good quality open sights too.

[Geezer]

If we are going to design a fantasy British break-barrel, while I would like it to have a trigger of the quality of the Rekord/CD, I would like a safety catch that comes on when the trigger is cocked, not slightly afterwards, is in the right place for easy use (protruding from the centre of the end cap) and that can be easily re-set?

And a scope-optimised stock, and an LW barrel.

Hm, what does that sound like?

[look no hands]

If we are going to design a fantasy British break-barrel, while I would like it to have a trigger of the quality of the Rekord/CD, I would like a safety catch that comes on when the trigger is cocked, not slightly afterwards, is in the right place for easy use (protruding from the centre of the end cap) and that can be easily re-set?

And a scope-optimised stock, and an LW barrel.

Hm, what does that sound like?

Either a Walther LGV or a Webley Longbow?

The only problem having a safety in the position you say or in the position like HW/AA have is they become a bit of a pain to flip off if you want to fit a thumbhole stock, I'd rather not have one.

Pete

[buttloaves]

If they could have knocked a couple of hundred quid off the Impact RM 100 would it have stole the show, at £595 i would still buy one i think they look stunning and would expect performance to match.

[RichardH]

If they could have knocked a couple of hundred quid off the Impact RM 100 would it have stole the show, at £595 i would still buy one i think they look stunning and would expect performance to match.

If a credible company had built that with a spring rather than gas strut it should have done well

Sadly all Impact created was an even smaller business with all of the downsides of the old Theoben guns.

[Geezer]

Either a Walther LGV or a Webley Longbow?

The only problem having a safety in the position you say or in the position like HW/AA have is they become a bit of a pain to flip off if you want to fit a thumbhole stock, I'd rather not have one.

Pete

Yes, but the HW/AA safety is particularly poor ergonomically, whereas the options that actually work with a thumbhole are either poor mechanically (eg a simple trigger block cross bolt - which can be poor for lefties if not reversible) or in safety terms (those Gamo/Theoben/M-1 Garand things inside the trigger guard).

I agree on the wider point. If AA made a slightly longer Webley Longbow, I would definitely buy one. As would about 2-400 other people, most of whom are members on here. But after that, they would have a bunch of unsold rifles ready for "clearance special offers" at the big dealers. Which is what happened with the 12ft/lbs Tomahawk, and would have happened to the Longbow if Webley had not gone belly-up in 2005.

[look no hands]

Yes, but the HW/AA safety is particularly poor ergonomically, whereas the options that actually work with a thumbhole are either poor mechanically (eg a simple trigger block cross bolt - which can be poor for lefties if not reversible) or in safety terms (those Gamo/Theoben/M-1 Garand things inside the trigger guard).

I agree on the wider point. If AA made a slightly longer Webley Longbow, I would definitely buy one. As would about 2-400 other people, most of whom are members on here. But after that, they would have a bunch of unsold rifles ready for "clearance special offers" at the big dealers. Which is what happened with the 12ft/lbs Tomahawk, and would have happened to the Longbow if Webley had not gone belly-up in 2005.

So basically what you're saying is that a new British made springer will be doomed as the HW99 has already stolen the show BUT had AA or BSA (I won't say Webley as they were already gone before the 99 gained popularity) made a 99 spec rifle (without the gauling issue and a better stock) before HW did then it probably would be doing pretty well so far.

Pete

[angrybear]

Yes, but the HW/AA safety is particularly poor ergonomically, whereas the options that actually work with a thumbhole are either poor mechanically (eg a simple trigger block cross bolt - which can be poor for lefties if not reversible) or in safety terms (those Gamo/Theoben/M-1 Garand things inside the trigger guard).

I agree on the wider point. If AA made a slightly longer Webley Longbow, I would definitely buy one. As would about 2-400 other people, most of whom are members on here. But after that, they would have a bunch of unsold rifles ready for "clearance special offers" at the big dealers. Which is what happened with the 12ft/lbs Tomahawk, and would have happened to the Longbow if Webley had not gone belly-up in 2005.

Where as I think the AA's safety catch is ergonomically superb and only bettered by the Theoben,
neither of which is a safety hazard in the slightest unless the user is stupid enough to stick their finger inside the trigger guard wearing heavy gloves that prevent "feel".

[wildrover77]

So what spec does a PCP have to be to be successfully launched? Large shot count? Magazine fed? Side lever or Bolt action or other? Small and compact? Traditional looking or race gun style?


And how about a springer? Gas ram or spring? Traditional or race gun style? Break barrel or Under lever?

[Geezer]

http://www.pneumaticballistics.com/p...-air-rifle-fac

Anybody got one?

What an interesting looking bit of kit. As severnsider asks, anyone got one? Anything in any of the air gun mags (oh Terry, pointers please ) ...

They were written up in AGW last year.

For the rest, BSA has gone, as has Webley. Theoben has gone. AA continues, but absorbed Falcon. S&P/Brocock were legislated away and Brocock is now part of Daystate (I think). As for Parker-Hale, List, Alros... Whiscombe and Mike Childs (Skan) retired.

So the auguries are not good. There are also serious issues around the industrial skills base, productivity, and business overheads.

Basically, to be successful now, you need to make either exclusive luxury items, or price-competitive, feature packed guns that you can make in sufficient volume to attract a big US distributor. I doubt anything British can do the latter, set against the Turks, Spanish and Chinese.

[wildrover77]

They were written up in AGW last year.

For the rest, BSA has gone, as has Webley. Theoben has gone. AA continues, but absorbed Falcon. S&P/Brocock were legislated away and Brocock is now part of Daystate (I think). As for Parker-Hale, List, Alros... Whiscombe and Mike Childs (Skan) retired.

So the auguries are not good. There are also serious issues around the industrial skills base, productivity, and business overheads.

Basically, to be successful now, you need to make either exclusive luxury items, or price-competitive, feature packed guns that you can make in sufficient volume to attract a big US distributor. I doubt anything British can do the latter, set against the Turks, Spanish and Chinese.

Do they sell many airguns in the states? I though they wee a real niche over there? It was either BB guns or rimfires?

[flyingfish]

It seems to me that the "hole in the market" is for a top tier break barrel. I would have thought that someone (AA BSA) could make something to rival the 98

Pete

[eyebull]

That's only because people would rather spend their money on German stuff than buy British, one of the reasons we don't have a decent airgun, car, bike etc industry is down to management, we have some of the best minds in the world when it comes to engineering, it's just they can't hold it all together because of bad management and the lack of funding and development, at the end of the day it just comes down to profit, if BSA weren't being strangled by Gamo's purse strings then I'm sure they could produce something a bit better, that's why they only use a pin instead of a bolt (but it seems strange how Gamo use a bolt on their rifles), Webley were making some decent rifles before the muppets at AGS sold them down the river and let the Turks take over.

So more due to the above than the 12 FPE limit then...

Do they sell many airguns in the states? I though they wee a real niche over there? It was either BB guns or rimfires?

Airguns are becoming increasingly popular over there, but even a niche market in a country of 325 million people equates to a healthy volume of sales. The fact that airguns are almost completely unregulated does help a bit too - not just power-wise, but semi auto, full auto etc. They can take imports from just about anywhere.