Firearms saftey consultation - inculdes airguns & minature rifle ranges

[Powderfinger]

My local NSRA club had to run under the miniature range rules recently when there was a delay in renewing it's permission to run as an approved FAC range. AFAIK our club is still a miniature range as well as an approved range. It's not like it's a new club run by greenhorns; our club is decades old.
The miniature rifle rules are not leading to crime any more than the FAC or SGC system is. The three worst shooting icrimes in British history had nothing to do with the miniature ranges exemption.
My guess is there are moves afoot to ban semi auto 22s especially black rifles and removing the miniature range exemption is just part of that process.
Shooters who support these changes need to think what will be the long term effects.

[Jesim1]

My local NSRA club had to run under the miniature range rules recently when there was a delay in renewing it's permission to run as an approved FAC range. AFAIK our club is still a miniature range as well as an approved range. It's not like it's a new club run by greenhorns; our club is decades old.
The miniature rifle rules are not leading to crime any more than the FAC or SGC system is. The three worst shooting icrimes in British history had nothing to do with the miniature ranges exemption.
My guess is there are moves afoot to ban semi auto 22s especially black rifles and removing the miniature range exemption is just part of that process.
Shooters who support these changes need to think what will be the long term effects.

I understand your concern, and from what you have said you and your club are an example of "what good looks like" and the way a minirange clause can be useful.

The big issue with this loophole though is that anyone wanting to start a minirange does not have to have any training, experience, or even an FAC certificate themselves, they can just start a range, buy multiple live ammo guns, and then hand them to the public - and that surely has to be wrong?

This is a chance to acknowledge stuff like this is dangerous and unwanted by sensible shooters, and that simple changes like making sure the proprietor of the range has an FAC and suitable training to run a range could be a solution which is reasonable and proportional without them getting a blanket ban?

All I'm saying is that it's better to get involved if we want to protect our sport rather than try to defend things like this, which in all honesty, don't make sense?

[angrybear]

There is no excuse for every member of this forum not to reply to this consultation.
Give the Govt your view & Your reasons for that view.

Those who don't may as well quit the BBS & keep your opinions to yourself.

[RobF]

The big issue with this loophole though is that anyone wanting to start a minirange does not have to have any training, experience, or even an FAC certificate themselves, they can just start a range, buy multiple live ammo guns, and then hand them to the public - and that surely has to be wrong?

They don't need an FAC to run a FAC range even if it's not a mini. I took an indoor range through HO Approval and certification for up to .45 and 600ft-lb, air, rim and centre fire. I didn't have an FAC then.

The structure of many ranges is that they aren't run by one person. They are often clubs run by committees and it's the Secretary who is legally responsible, but they don't need an FAC either.

The FEO will review members of clubs that have HO approval and want to use firearms but there's no training. It's really down to the fact that the liability will fall onto the Sec if proper processes aren't followed, even if they're insured.

[angrybear]

They don't need an FAC to run a FAC range even if it's not a mini. I took an indoor range through HO Approval and certification for up to .45 and 600ft-lb, air, rim and centre fire. I didn't have an FAC then.

The structure of many ranges is that they aren't run by one person. They are often clubs run by committees and it's the Secretary who is legally responsible, but they don't need an FAC either.

The FEO will review members of clubs that have HO approval and want to use firearms but there's no training. It's really down to the fact that the liability will fall onto the Sec if proper processes aren't followed, even if they're insured.

But could you buy guns & ammo for that range ?

That is the loophole for mini-rifle ranges, set up as a mini range business & buy semi auto .22's & ammo with no FAC, to potentially lend to your mate in the local drug gang .

[RobF]

But could you buy guns & ammo for that range ?

That is the loophole for mini-rifle ranges, set up as a mini range business & buy semi auto .22's & ammo with no FAC, to potentially lend to your mate in the local drug gang .

No I couldn’t. But that wasn’t the point of my reply. Jesim was saying the issue was that anyone could run a range and they still can.

There are other loopholes which effectively allow you to be in possession of larger calibre rifles and ammunition without an FAC but as you point out you’d need the club armourer to purchase them first under their FAC.

[Jesim1]

Jesim was saying the issue was that anyone could run a range and they still can.

Sorry, perhaps my example of the loop hole was not clear as I meant it.

My feelings are that a non FAC holder who has had no kind of checks on his behaviour/character can buy, use, hire out FAC guns under the minirange clause to members of the public or for themselves, effectively sidestepping any kind of gun control. The actual running of the range was not the issue as such, but obviously in conjunction with the above it makes sense for us to ensure a range is run by law abiding responsible and trained individuals where guns and ammo are sold to someone who has been checked and deemed fit to do so.

We have to jump through hoops to get an FAC for just one gun, yet as it stands, a person using the above loophole can buy a dozen guns with almost no checks and use them with little in the way of control.

I hope that makes it clearer as I would like to see more ranges not less, but I'd like them to be safe and a positive reflection on the sport.

James

[RobF]

Sorry, perhaps my example of the loop hole was not clear as I meant it.

My feelings are that a non FAC holder who has had no kind of checks on his behaviour/character can buy, use, hire out FAC guns under the minirange clause to members of the public or for themselves, effectively sidestepping any kind of gun control. The actual running of the range was not the issue as such, but obviously in conjunction with the above it makes sense for us to ensure a range is run by law abiding responsible and trained individuals where guns and ammo are sold to someone who has been checked and deemed fit to do so.

We have to jump through hoops to get an FAC for just one gun, yet as it stands, a person using the above loophole can buy a dozen guns with almost no checks and use them with little in the way of control.

I hope that makes it clearer as I would like to see more ranges not less, but I'd like them to be safe and a positive reflection on the sport.

James

It does, and I agree.