Double Spring Clip Webley Mk1 Air Pistol.

[Davidm61]

I've been looking at this at gun on Holts as well, and the styling of the breech block where the barrel 'clicks' in, and the inclusion of the screw to retain/locate the breech/rear air cylinder plug is shown in a photo of a double spring clip MK1 on page 16 of Gordon Bruces 'Webley Air Pistols' book. Sadly it doesn't show the serial number of that gun, and yes, the spring clips are different, having the 'dimples' that would push against the barrel. But the photo at least shows a MK1 double spring clip with a similar set up to the one on Holts site.

Where it has been said in earlier posts that breech is broken, could anyone please point out where, as from the photos on Holts site I can't see any damage to the gun.

Many thanks.

[Garvin]

Where it has been said in earlier posts that breech is broken, could anyone please point out where, as from the photos on Holts site I can't see any damage to the gun.

Many thanks.

The forward projections on the breech block appear to have snapped or been removed. This pistol shows a damaged breech from above.

[Davidm61]

The forward projections on the breech block appear to have snapped or been removed. This pistol shows a damaged breech from above.

Many thanks, appreciated. Presumably this is the case then for the one shown in Bruces book, or was there a variant without the projections? Sorry for the questions, but I've never had the opportunity to handle on of these double clip versions, so having to rely on what I can find on the forums/internet/books.

Thanks.

[Garvin]

Presumably this is the case then for the one shown in Bruces book, or was there a variant without the projections?

Jimmie Dee, above, says there was a variant of the spring clip Mk1 without projections. I don't know myself, but have asked an expert if he's heard of such a variant.

[thenightstalker]

After reading through this thread about the spring clip Webley, I had a dig through my collection and found that my early mk1 (non Spring clip) is serial number 1535, just 5 later than the one at auction. The two of them may have met each other at the factory!

Nick.

[Troubledshooter]

Unfortunately, my Webley contact was not around at the time the Mk.I WG was manufactured, so I can't ask him, but as far as I am aware, and I'm no expert, there never was a version produced without the extended sides to the breech block, even though there were many variations of the pistol throughout it's production run.
The missing corners on both the Mk.I and early Junior models came about through careless use by the owners, but were strengthened in the later models that used a similar style of breech block, thus alleviating the problem.
It is quite possible that some owners with the appropriate engineering skills may have carefully remodelled their Mk.I breech blocks, after breaking off one corner, so the pistol could possibly appear as if it left the factory in such a condition, but I have not seen such a specimen.

[JimmieDee]

Unfortunately, my Webley contact was not around at the time the Mk.I WG was manufactured, so I can't ask him, but as far as I am aware, and I'm no expert, there never was a version produced without the extended sides to the breech block, even though there were many variations of the pistol throughout it's production run.
The missing corners on both the Mk.I and early Junior models came about through careless use by the owners, but were strengthened in the later models that used a similar style of breech block, thus alleviating the problem.
It is quite possible that some owners with the appropriate engineering skills may have carefully remodelled their Mk.I breech blocks, after breaking off one corner, so the pistol could possibly appear as if it left the factory in such a condition, but I have not seen such a specimen.

When I get a chance, I will provide a photograph of my two spring clips models. The first with both protrusions "broken off" and the second without protrusions and no sign of damage that indicates it was made without the protrusions.

[Troubledshooter]

The forward projections on the breech block appear to have snapped or been removed. This pistol shows a damaged breech from above.

This is a not uncommon problem with both the Wood Gripped Mk.I and the Wood Gripped Junior.
My own example of a boxed Wood Gripped Junior, now sold, had a broken corner on the top right side of the breech block, the side view of which can be seen in the 'Webley Junior' section on my signature site, particularly if the photograph is enlarged.

[Troubledshooter]

Double Spring Clips 219 and 374 both have their complete breech sides.

[JimmieDee]

Revisiting this thread as I have some new observations....

There were three proposed reasons for the missing breech protrusions:

To quote slug-gun, who is a very experienced collector and author of Webley Air Rifles 1925-2005, there are three scenarios:

1. Either both projections were broken off on a pistol which has seen very little use, and then expertly repaired and blued over by its owner to match the existing action?

2. Webley decided at some point, probably fairly late on in the making of the double spring clips, that the projections had a limited function and removed them during manufacture?

3. The pistol was sent back to the factory by the owner because the projections were bending or whatever, and Webley 'fettled' the pistol at that point in time?


Not too long ago, a double spring clip came appeared at Kempton. Looking at the photos it seems that it has the breech protrusions or at least one is intact. It is serial number 1257 which is pretty high. That would seem to preclude option 2. Unless this pistol, and maybe there are others, was old stock that Webley eventually decided to stamp with a serial number and sell. Would Webley have left stamping of the serial number to a late stage in the production cycle though?

More food for thought for sure!