Webley thoughts

[trajectory]

I suppose this was started by just wondering what sort of accuracy could be squeezed out of the original design. Taking up tolerances, trying to ensure the barrel went back to the same position for each shot etc. I think Webley reckoned a Premier could group in an inch at 30ft. I can get within that with my LP53 & I wondered what factors prevent me doing that with the Premier. I realise the Webley design was never meant to be a 10m paper puncher but despite all its positives I wondered if I could shoot tighter groups with it. I like its compactness & wouldnt really want to increase its length. I had wondered about making a barrel shroud to mount both sights on as one possibility of a mod that might have a benefit. I dont want to try & convert a Premier into a match pistol ( not a practical idea) but just wondering if there are any mods that can be done to make a Webley shoot as accurately as possible. Trigger sems ok, but sights & barrel placement seem possible areas to look at.......quite like the grip angle but have added a big lump of lead into the lower frame section to change weight distribution.I think it improved the feel & might be a little less hold sensitive. Might just be my feeling though, bit subjective.
Never had a 'modern' Webley so cant say anything about the Tempest Typhoon or Hurricane but would be interested in any positives or negatives compared to the 'old' Webley. Heard people decry them because they are not steel, but is that really an issue...? Light alloys are used in many applications quite happily, so as long as the choice is fit for puropse id be happy.
So thats kind of where I am at the moment with thoughts on what might be feasible. Open tooo ideas, it might not get off the drawing board but id be interested to hear of any mods to get the potential accuracy up, (appart from pellet choice & practice),
Thanks

[ggggr]

I suppose this was started by just wondering what sort of accuracy could be squeezed out of the original design. Taking up tolerances, trying to ensure the barrel went back to the same position for each shot etc. I think Webley reckoned a Premier could group in an inch at 30ft. I can get within that with my LP53 & I wondered what factors prevent me doing that with the Premier. I realise the Webley design was never meant to be a 10m paper puncher but despite all its positives I wondered if I could shoot tighter groups with it. I like its compactness & wouldnt really want to increase its length. I had wondered about making a barrel shroud to mount both sights on as one possibility of a mod that might have a benefit. I dont want to try & convert a Premier into a match pistol ( not a practical idea) but just wondering if there are any mods that can be done to make a Webley shoot as accurately as possible. Trigger sems ok, but sights & barrel placement seem possible areas to look at.......quite like the grip angle but have added a big lump of lead into the lower frame section to change weight distribution.I think it improved the feel & might be a little less hold sensitive. Might just be my feeling though, bit subjective.
Never had a 'modern' Webley so cant say anything about the Tempest Typhoon or Hurricane but would be interested in any positives or negatives compared to the 'old' Webley. Heard people decry them because they are not steel, but is that really an issue...? Light alloys are used in many applications quite happily, so as long as the choice is fit for puropse id be happy.
So thats kind of where I am at the moment with thoughts on what might be feasible. Open tooo ideas, it might not get off the drawing board but id be interested to hear of any mods to get the potential accuracy up, (appart from pellet choice & practice),
Thanks

Well the Tempest / Hurricane trigger mod gives a trigger that pisses all over earlier pistols https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....ebley-tempest/ . The Tempest is probably very underated but some of the ideas are good. (Imagine if earlier Webley pistols did not have the threaded guide/ slash endplug-- but retained the pivot screw. Also a fulcrum plate you can change is a good idea).

Right--Just my feelings here. And starting with stuff that can be reversed. Somebody made up a rearsight for me for a Premier tha was more easily adjusted. It was a bloody big ugly alloy thing with a wide square notch. That gave a very good sight picture , with a fair bit of daylight either side of the foresight post.

I think if you could get a wrap around set of grips made----that would give a better hold (Scroll down to look at Tempest ones http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.co.../label/Tempest ) I shoot 2 handed due to bad arms and that helps accuracy for me

I usually cut 3 coils off a Webley pistol spring, so it just comes to the end of the cylinder. You dont seem to lose much power but easier to cock and less recoil.

If you have the earlier type Premier with the screwed on piston washer, you could get someone to make you one that is about 5mm longer to shortstroke the gun and cut recoil.

people use "power washers" or thin delrin washers at either end of the mainspring to reduce friction.

If you wanted to go a bit further, get a Hurricane barrel (the end of the extended housing doesnt contain any more barrel than a Tempest) and maybe get some sort of insert made up so you can profile a foresight post to your liking . Another way would be to buy a rough Premier barrel and get the end welded up and profiled.

Regarding securing the barrel in the breech jaws --for now---I'd be tempted to try one of those plastic plant ties that are a bit like cable ties but you can unclip---------------and tighten it each time you close the barrel up---just to try it for a few shots. If there is no improvement, then no point in trying to tighten the barrel catch etc.

I hope some of this is of some use to you




PS --always worth a look http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....t=webley+steyr

[trajectory]

ggggr, thanks for your reply. Particularly interested in your opinion about the later triggers being that much better than the older models. That could be a major influence on what direction I start looking in. Didn't know the Hurricane barrel wasn't all barrel either. That in itself opens up some possibilities. Wrap round grips aren't a bad idea. Not sure if I will try to make a set for the Premier or hang on a bit to have a think about looking for a Tempest/Hurricane. Certainly plenty to think about. Might shrink a brass colar onto the rear of the Premier barrel to elliminate the possibility of the barrel going back pointed off to the left or right.Shimming the lug wouldnt take much effort so might have a bash at that too.learnt a bit, short stroking sounded like it was worthwhile, thanks

[trajectory]

Looking at an exploded view of a Hurricane there is a passage screw & washer........what's the purpose of the passage? Is it a result of a machining process into the cylinder that needs capping?

[ashf9999]

Looking at an exploded view of a Hurricane there is a passage screw & washer........what's the purpose of the passage? Is it a result of a machining process into the cylinder that needs capping?

It's as you say. These Webleys don't have the removable rear end cap of the earlier ones; consequently there is no access at the rear of the cylinder to machine the transfer port from the inside. As a result, it is drilled from the outside of the frame to join the cylinder with the 'visible' port, so therefore it partly needs sealing off with a screw & washer. No need to try to remove this generally.

[ptdunk]

Since the end of 2018 I’ve been gradually rotating pistols from my collection for Pistol HFT comps at Lee valley, in the open sight category. (I won the 2018 open sight summer league with a FWB90)

There was a Webley Premier I bought off here that was amazingly accurate for that type of pistol, I think mainly down to the trigger.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BsVe4STh...=11lhjozkkx5er

Whoever had it before me had done a fantastic job fettling the trigger because it broke very lightly and crisply. Even a few ounces heavier and it would have opened the grouping up quite a bit.

As mentioned above consistent hold is obviously crucial. With a two handed standing hold I always locked my fingers together the same way every time and tried to hold it as loosely as possible. Even a little finger out of place could result in a flyer. Also concentrating on pulling the trigger straight back (imagine pulling the trigger through the rearsight notch) seems to help.

I think I came 4th with the premier, (up against pcp match pistols) and later came second with this Target gripped Hurricane with a wide trigger blade with a trigger I’d fettled:

https://www.instagram.com/p/ByK-LE4B...=1oot0qkrplyis

https://www.vintageairgunsgallery.co...be3b8a5fcd.jpg

I think that’s as accurate a setup as I’ll ever get with a webley.
I can measure the trigger pull weight on the premier if it would be useful.

So without doing anything drastic, if you secured your barrel lock up, polished the trigger sears (if needed) worked out a consistent relaxed hold and zeroed it for that it might tighten the grouping up.

You’ve made me want to try my LP53 on the next pistol hft Comp now!

Cheers,
Matt

[trajectory]

Thats a nice Hurricane Matt, great set of grips. Interesting about the Premier too. The trigger on mine is pretty good bearing in mind its design. The weights acceptable & probably more importantly its consistant with very little backlash. I appreciate the fact they are a bit sensitive regarding taking up a grip & consistent hold. I have a Junior that needs to be held quite firmly to get the best out of it. A loose hold & its all over the place. The Premier seems to shoot better with a more relaxed grip....funny how things can vary
The LP53 might well deserve an outing, not as clinical as a FWB but a great pistol.