Black powder

[DedIdick]

Common sense says yes - depending on who you talk to says its the law, but unless somebody can point me at it, I can't find it.

tac

Directly from the HSE, page 100. "Explosive Regulations 2014"

Shooters’ powder
2 Shooters’ powder includes both black powder and smokeless powder.
3 The powder should be kept in containers with no more than 1 kg of powder
per container. The containers should be constructed in such a way that, in the
event of a fire they do not provide additional containment that will either increase
the explosive force of any deflagration or cause smokeless powder to detonate.
Normally plastic/polythene or paper/cloth containers should be used. Metal
containers with a screw cap or a push-in lid must not be used.
4 Although shooters’ powders are generally not very sensitive to ignition by
electrostatic discharge, homeloaders or others who decant the contents of plastic
containers should take care to reduce the risk of static electricity build-up. Advice
on precautions may be sought from the manufacturer.
5 The containers of powder should be kept in a box constructed of plywood
with a minimum thickness of 18 mm and a maximum thickness of 24 mm.
6 Where the box holds more than one container, each individual container
should be separated by a 6 mm wooden partition that is securely fixed to the outer
walls of the box. Each compartment should allow 30% additional height between
the top of the container and the inside of the lid.
7 There should be a good seal to prevent a flame path between the lid of the
box and the interior. An intumescent strip should be fitted around the edges of the
lid to give a good seal or alternatively, a stepped lid or internal second lid should be
fitted.
8 The box should be constructed so that there is no exposed metal on the
inside. Internal nuts should be covered by a glued wooden liner not less than
6 mm.
9 Figure 1 shows a box that would meet the requirements set out in the previous
paragraphs.

I rest my case.

Only thing being whether these "regulations" are actually enforceable as there seems to be a lot of "Should" and not many "Must".

[DesG]

777 £48.95lb
Pyrodex £36.85lb
BP(Kranks) £18 500gm

Even Swiss finest quality is only £33 for 500gm.

Simple init?

Oh and the plastic stuff stinks!

[tacfoley]

777 £48.95lb
Pyrodex £36.85lb
BP(Kranks) £18 500gm

Even Swiss finest quality is only £33 for 500gm.

Simple init?

Oh and the plastic stuff stinks!

That's fine IF you live around a spit and fart from Kranks. Many of us, including YOU, Sir, do not, and the drive to Yorkshire to collect the stuff wipes out the difference for sure, with the cost of fuel on these isles. Whinemeal, I can get Pyrodex after a fifteen minute drive, or ask a pal [yes, I still have one or two] to get it for me.

Buying even the cheap stuff from Kranks STILL entails a £25 HAZMAT supplement - add that to your eighteen quid Krank's powder and that's more than the Pyrodex, right?

tac

[DesG]

That's fine IF you live around a spit and fart from Kranks. Many of us, including YOU, Sir, do not, and the drive to Yorkshire to collect the stuff wipes out the difference for sure, with the cost of fuel on these isles. Whinemeal, I can get Pyrodex after a fifteen minute drive, or ask a pal [yes, I still have one or two] to get it for me.

Buying even the cheap stuff from Kranks STILL entails a £25 HAZMAT supplement - add that to your eighteen quid Krank's powder and that's more than the Pyrodex, right?

tac

You're quite correct in that I don't live anywhere near Kranks. However, my shooting club is not half a mile from Keens in Aberkenfig where they stock Kranks BP for around £18 a pot and Swiss for around £65 a kilo and various other powders at fairly normal prices. They pay the supplement and add a quid per pot. I also have a local RFD who does a bi annual trip to Kranks to stock up and sell it on to us locals at Kranks prices. I'm sure plenty of other shooters are in a similar situation. I also make the BP storage boxes for forty five quid a go which are fully compliant with the HO GUIDANCE, so using BP does not have to be a problem.

[Peter C]

If you can get to Warwick, try Peter Starley. Have a look at the link below.

http://www.black-powder.co.uk/bp.htm

[gtpkeeper]

When I got my FAC 5 years ago there was no mention of a box to store smokeless powders, black powder yes, pyrodex no, because smokeless and pyrodex are NOT explosives, they are propellants, well that's what my firearms officer told me and everyone else I know who shoots black and reloads smokeless

Same here,

Err......what part of the "Explosive Regulations 2014", page 100, do you not understand?????? Or do you have some special exemption?

I would say, to anyone who has any doubt as to whether they need to rethink how they store Shooters Powders, download, read & inwardly digest, the HSE Explosive Regulations 2014. (or just read my post #10)

hope all the reloaders out there know this

[tacfoley]

You're quite correct in that I don't live anywhere near Kranks. However, my shooting club is not half a mile from Keens in Aberkenfig where they stock Kranks BP for around £18 a pot and Swiss for around £65 a kilo and various other powders at fairly normal prices. They pay the supplement and add a quid per pot. I also have a local RFD who does a bi annual trip to Kranks to stock up and sell it on to us locals at Kranks prices. I'm sure plenty of other shooters are in a similar situation. I also make the BP storage boxes for forty five quid a go which are fully compliant with the HO GUIDANCE, so using BP does not have to be a problem.

How big, ie., how many compartments, does your box have?

tac

[tacfoley]

Quote from post #7 -

'BTW, NONE of the subs work well in a flintlock action, especially in the powder pan. This is because Pyrodex has a far higher flash initiation point than any grade of BP by a country mile - sparks from the frizzen just refuse to light this stuff up. Triple 7 is needs even hotter ignition, about 777F, hence the name.'

Pyrodex was never intended to replace BP in flintlock use. The late Mr Pawluk was a very clever chemist, and was insistent that his invention was aimed at the ever-growing percussion shooter market. Given his expertise in the field of propellant manufacturing it is unlikely that the fact that Pyrodex performs as well as self-raising flour in a flintlock was an oversight on his part.

Sure, you CAN shoot it in a flintlock, but only by priming the pan with BP and first putting a small initiating charge of BP down the breech, making a so-called duplex load. Over in the Americas, where most folks are willing to try just about anything once, that's about as many times as folks do it. Even Pyrodex pellets, intended for in-lines, have a small centrally located initiating charge of compressed BP to get them going.

In any case, most flintlock shooters of my acquaintance would rather have boiling mercury poured into their stapled-open eyes than admit to knowing anything about Pyrodex except in passing.

tac

[DesG]

How big, ie., how many compartments, does your box have?

tac

4. They're a foot cube which means I can get 5 boxes per 4x8 sheet of 18mm marine or interior grade ply which is rather expensive.

[tacfoley]

4. They're a foot cube which means I can get 5 boxes per 4x8 sheet of 18mm marine or interior grade ply which is rather expensive.

Thanks - so that's four containers of powder, right?

Or wrong?

tac

[series2a]

Directly from the HSE, page 100. "Explosive Regulations 2014"



I rest my case.

Only thing being whether these "regulations" are actually enforceable as there seems to be a lot of "Should" and not many "Must".

No mention of storage of Pyrodex when bought or even when the FO came to inspect my box.I only use BP now either Swiss or Kirklees special mix.
No question asked when I bought Pyrodex and what for from the Gunshops owner ???
I had a box from day one when I had a ML. But the Pyrodex was on the shelves not in a container of any sort unless the 25 tubs he had were all empty?? Maybe a bit of education is needed 😎