Latest re: Steyr LP50

[tacfoley]

Off topic, but this thread has wandered already.....

Would a 12 ft/lb air rifle revolver be legal? Something like an Umarex S+W with a long barrel and fixed stock?

Umarex brand products are made in Germany, where such a power level is illegal for what is really a modified revolver. I opine that you will be waiting for a long time.

Tac

[Brian.Samson]

Off topic, but this thread has wandered already.....

Would a 12 ft/lb air rifle revolver be legal? Something like an Umarex S+W with a long barrel and fixed stock?

They aren't 'self-loading' and aren't puddings so would be ok. A Dessert Eagle may now be banned under the Dangerous Puddings Act 2017 though

[eyebull]

Umarex brand products are made in Germany, where such a power level is illegal for what is really a modified revolver. I opine that you will be waiting for a long time.

Tac

Thinking of making one, not waiting to have one made

The HW80 is made in Germany btw...

[Brian.Samson]

Umarex brand products are made in Germany, where such a power level is illegal for what is really a modified revolver. I opine that you will be waiting for a long time.

Tac

High power airguns are NOT illegal in Germany

[Cocksure]

High power airguns are NOT illegal in Germany

Brexit, therefore I couldn't give a shite........but illegal or not it's common knowledge that air guns from the 'Hun' come with low ft lb springs and settings, please bore me to death with a disscussion of european law......and airguns ARE exempt from firearms legislation, although they may be regarded as specially dangerous....but they don't cause the same level of harm as your 'Desert Eagle' gag.......Morning.

[Brian.Samson]

Thinking of making one, not waiting to have one made

The HW80 is made in Germany btw...

So you have two points of law in your question - Are there any restrictions on Rifled barrel Revolver type air weapons. The answer to that is no, they are legal in the UK. ( Sig Sauer MCX/MPX are an example of this ).

The second part is - Can a Pistol be converted to a Rifle and the power increased from a limit of 6 fpe. The answer to that is.. yes, very probably.
very probably because there is no definition in law of what an air pistol actually is, so would come down to a decision by a judge as to whether it was a pistol or a rifle. So long as you make it look like a rifle and nothing like a pistol, then you'd have a good argument in court that it was in fact a rifle.

There's no requirement to have a barrel longer than 12" (for an Air Weapon), but it might help when converting a pistol to a rifle that it looks like a rifle and isn't easily concealed like a pistol. If you just bolt a rear stock onto the pistol grip of a pistol - you might be on shaky ground, but again it would come down to a decision by a judge at the end of the day.

[Brian.Samson]

Brexit, therefore I couldn't give a shite........but illegal or not it's common knowledge that air guns from the 'Hun' come with low ft lb springs and settings, please bore me to death with a disscussion of european law......and airguns ARE exempt from firearms legislation, although they may be regarded as specially dangerous....but they don't cause the same level of harm as your 'Desert Eagle' gag.......Morning.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried - it is morning though you're right about that - well done.

[Cocksure]

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried - it is morning though in this hemisphere, you're right about that - well done.

No Bri I'm right, you gag was awful.

And further more a pistol that looks nothing like a pistol and does look like a rifle is a....rifle?

[Brian.Samson]

No Bri I'm right, you gag was awful.

And further more a pistol that looks nothing like a pistol and does look like a rifle is a....rifle?

Yup - you'd have a very good argument in court and the Home Office have already confirmed this in a letter to John Cooper when he fitted a rifle stock to a Falcon pistol and increased the power above 6fpe.

[Cocksure]

Air weapons are exempt from conditions imposed on firearms, but have their own 'airgun' conditions....just because these confitions are explained in firearms law doesn't make them a firearm. No gunsafe, no license....no conditions other than those relating to airguns.

You get caught acting the tit you face firearms law, but that could apply to a can of cs gas.....which I'm sure nobody would argue is either a firearm rifle, pistol or shotgun.

[RichardinDorset]

So what types of air weapon are prohibited?

Section 5 of the Firearms Act 1968 (as amended) contains various descriptions. Any firearms (regardless of kinetic energy) that fall within any of the following definitions are prohibited weapons.

1. Any firearm which is so designed or adapted that two or more missiles can be successively discharged without repeat pressure on the trigger. [Section 5(1)(a)] e.g. this means fully automatic and burst fire weapons of any type are banned.

2. Any self-loading or pump-action rifled gun other than one which is chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges. [Section 5(1)(ab)] (See definitions below)

NB: Although it was not Parliament’s intention that any low powered air weapons should be banned by the 1997 Acts, there is now considerable uncertainty as to whether a rifled airgun of the description covered by 5(1)(ab) has become prohibited even though it may be a very low powered weapon not hitherto held on certificate.

The Home Office have consulted ACPO and the Crown Prosecution Service about the legal status of these weapons and have agreed, in the absence of a court ruling, that the issue should be resolved formally at the next legislative opportunity. In the meantime chief officers are advised that self-loading or pump-action rifled airguns should continue to be regarded as falling outside the certification process provided that they are low powered and do not fall within the Firearms (Dangerous Air Weapons) Rules 1969. ♣

So if a sub 12ft lb pump is illegal, so is a Steyr hunting 5 rifle. (Steyr calls it 'automatic' which is not a good start!)

With the Steyr, I guess the argument centres on the definition of 'loading'. (Ignoring the main issue of sub 12 rifles and sub 6 pistols being outside the scope of the firearms act). The mag indexes automatically, but the pellet isn't loaded into the breech. Of course there isn't a breech as such anyway. You could argue that the mag is actually 5 breeches in a row?

Anyway, a pump action pcp rifle would be really nice! So would an auto indexing one!

[Cocksure]

Yup - you'd have a very good argument in court and the Home Office have already confirmed this in a letter to John Cooper when he fitted a rifle stock to a Falcon pistol and increased the power above 6fpe.

You're missing my point, why would anyone go out of their way to make a pistol 'look' like a rifle in order to dodge the law....just buy a rifle, weird.
And I wouldn't advise anyone to do so as in court your subversion would ensure your conviction.....being a smart arse is not a defence in law. Yes I do know ( before I get an hilarious ' you should know' gag)

And airguns are only subject to firearms law IF THEY FIT THE DESCRIPTION OF A FIREARM hence the OP original correspondence...otherwise they are airguns and are exempt. Apples are apples until you paint them orange...then is it an apple anymore? You may say 'of course' but it sure looks like an orange......

[Brian.Samson]

Air weapons are exempt from conditions imposed on firearms, but have their own 'airgun' conditions....just because these confitions are explained in firearms law doesn't make them a firearm. No gunsafe, no license....no conditions other than those relating to airguns.

You get caught acting the tit you face firearms law, but that could apply to a can of cs gas.....which I'm sure nobody would argue is either a firearm rifle, pistol or shotgun.

Air Weapons are exempt from sections of the firearms act where it states that they are exempt, they are not exempt from the sections where it doesn't say they are exempt.

That's kind of the whole point of this thread actually. When they banned Self loading firearms, they remembered to make rimfires exempt, but forgot to make Air Weapons exempt.

So as an example...

Section 16 of the Firearms act says this :

It is an offence for a person to have in his possession any firearm or ammunition with intent by means thereof to endanger life or cause serious injury to property, or to enable another person by means thereof to endanger life or cause serious injury to property, whether any injury to person or property has been caused or not.

That section of the act most definitely includes air guns - because a) they are defined as firearms and b) there is no exemption in that section for Air Weapons.

[gingernut]

Dessert Eagle

[Cocksure]

Air Weapons are exempt from sections of the firearms act where it states that they are exempt, they are not exempt from the sections where it doesn't say they are exempt.

That's kind of the whole point of this thread actually. When they banned Self loading firearms, they remembered to make rimfires exempt, but forgot to make Air Weapons exempt.

So as an example...

Section 16 of the Firearms act says this :

It is an offence for a person to have in his possession any firearm or ammunition with intent by means thereof to endanger life or cause serious injury to property, or to enable another person by means thereof to endanger life or cause serious injury to property, whether any injury to person or property has been caused or not.

That section of the act most definitely includes air guns - because a) they are defined as firearms and b) there is no exemption in that section for Air Weapons.

That's because if you posses it with intent it becomes a firearm.......like I said, an airgun, being used as an airgun, within airgun law, remains an airgun. Exempt.

Your example is pants.