Long range airgun shooting

[Zico]

Are they? Where's that then?

Well, Sagres for one is at least reporting he has achieved it. (See the 1st post on this thread) I haven't witnessed it for myself obviously and so I suppose his claim will also be poo-pood also but I have no reason to disbelieve him, who would risk their repution by making unatainable claims
I dont believe its possible every time.. form, conditions and a fair bit of luck may come into it but keep plugging away and eventually a group could well fall into these parameters. I dont recall Harry saying he did it every time either like some seem to be suggesting.

[Gary C]

Well, Sagres for one is at least reporting he has achieved it. (See the 1st post on this thread) I haven't witnessed it for myself obviously and so I suppose his claim will also be poo-pood also but I have no reason to disbelieve him, who would risk their repution by making unatainable claims
I dont believe its possible every time.. form, conditions and a fair bit of luck may come into it but keep plugging away and eventually a group could well fall into these parameters. I dont recall Harry saying he did it every time either like some seem to be suggesting.

You don't recall..therefore it didn't happen?

I pulled Harry on several things, clear lies.

1. I watched his boasts and pulled him when he suggested that you can effectively walk up, sit down, judge the wind and hit a 1" target at 150 yards

2. I pulled him when he claimed to have killed many rabbits over 100 yards and never missed one.

If you believe either of those things mate you're a little naive.

I agree with Sagres on the possibility, I've produced great groups at very long ranges which were satisfying. But like sagres it took me a lot of attempts.

I've also hunted for years out to 80 yards and watched small wind variances move the pellets. I have NO problem with people claiming super accurate technique, super accurate guns, perfect pellets. Way beyond my ability - but that's no reason to decry it. It's the wind that stops you being able to produce that perfect shot to order.

Harry asserts you can read the wind. I say you can't at that distance. I have a grand that says that nobody else can.

[pieter]

WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THIS PLACE THAT EVERYONE IS FIGHTING/ ACCUSING AND OR ARGUEING.......


!!stop the banning its WORSE than anything we can say or print on this forum!!

[Sid]

What some people need to realise about long range shooting is that it's only meaningful if you have a reasonable degree of control over where the pellet or bullet strikes. There are cut-off points, depending on range and equipment where the whole exercise degenerates into a game of chance. Eventually you may as well be rolling 5 dice to see how long it takes for them all to come up sixes.

I politely asked Harry to tell us about his methods for reading the wind and applying corrections ( before I came to the conclusion he was full of it ) and he didn't choose to reply. Not because he was banned either, he had enough time to write a number of long rambling posts in the meantime, while ignoring the question.

[Davey K]

What some people need to realise about long range shooting is that it's only meaningful if you have a reasonable degree of control over where the pellet or bullet strikes. There are cut-off points, depending on range and equipment where the whole exercise degenerates into a game of chance. Eventually you may as well be rolling 5 dice to see how long it takes for them all to come up sixes.

I politely asked Harry to tell us about his methods for reading the wind and applying corrections ( before I came to the conclusion he was full of it ) and he didn't choose to reply. Not because he was banned either, he had enough time to write a number of long rambling posts in the meantime, while ignoring the question.

Or ignore what I said, because M4 summed it up better and more neatly in a couple of paras!!

I think I've caught Harry's rambling disease.

[bengarzy]

What some people need to realise about long range shooting is that it's only meaningful if you have a reasonable degree of control over where the pellet or bullet strikes. There are cut-off points, depending on range and equipment where the whole exercise degenerates into a game of chance. Eventually you may as well be rolling 5 dice to see how long it takes for them all to come up sixes.

I politely asked Harry to tell us about his methods for reading the wind and applying corrections ( before I came to the conclusion he was full of it ) and he didn't choose to reply. Not because he was banned either, he had enough time to write a number of long rambling posts in the meantime, while ignoring the question.

He did the same with me when I asked where he got his pellet wheights from and his energy at 100 and 150 yards with the JSB he was useing as it was about 70% up on reality.

Ben

[Born Again]

He did the same with me when I asked where he got his pellet wheights from and his energy at 100 and 150 yards with the JSB he was useing as it was about 70% up on reality.

Ben

I understand that Harry tested the ballistic mathematics for Chairgun in association with the equations American author.

Ben, do your own figures allow for 4000ft altitude and the air temperature that Harry shoots at ?

[bengarzy]

I understand that Harry tested the ballistic mathematics for Chairgun in association with the equations American author.

Ben, do your own figures allow for 4000ft altitude and the air temperature that Harry shoots at ?

Wouldnt know, Terry and I live in the real world so it wont have been a factor, but how ever high his altitude his projectile weights were wrong too so hes probably all theory and uses some one elses chart instead of actualy bothering to see if its correct (and in a lot of cases its miles out)

Ben

[Zico]

I pulled Harry on several things, clear lies.

1. I watched his boasts and pulled him when he suggested that you can effectively walk up, sit down, judge the wind and hit a 1" target at 150 yards

2. I pulled him when he claimed to have killed many rabbits over 100 yards and never missed one.

I dont recall him saying these things in the context you describe.. Well the threads gone now, so from what either of us remember of it its a bit like arguing about what happens when you pop your clogs.
Glad you agree that it could well be possible.. Hope your long range test at the end of the month produces some interesting results, heres hoping for some favourable conditions.

[Graham2]

I was sad to see the original thread deleted, as it was very interesting, and I wanted to hear more about Harry's claims. I realise he may have stepped out of line, but plenty of others were insulting from the off, but he remained pretty civil despite it all. I feel that his experiments could be valuable to all shooters, as it's only by pushing the envelope that things change for the better. Who knows, maybe his local weather conditions are the key to this type of shooting. There's a world of difference between this draughty, damp island and his. However, we won't know if his location is the key, not on here anyway. PS Terry, when did you try for the 100 yard groups, and what pellets were you using?

[Davey K]

Interesting discussion this - I think, if you pick the bones out of the sceptics argument, you will find that they are not denying that sub inch 100 yard groups (or 1.5" 150 yards FAC) are technically achievable. Stands to sense if you put enough pellets down range in five shot groups on a perfect day, eventually (after a few days) you'll get some to group under the magic inch. I expect this is what the long-shooting weekend will show.

BUT the real deal with this is that you are simply shooting a small number of shots at a fixed point and then landing the pellets in a group on a sheet of paper. It demonstrates the ability of your equipment more than anything else. What is in considerable doubt is the ability to consistently land pellets on a specific target at these ranges i.e. reading the wind over this distance and making an individual adjustment to each shot to land it in a bullseye in a group under one inch. As the original poster indicated, he needed 150 shots to land 10 in a group on his paper. Sniper Wolf did some brilliant shooting but as stated by Buddy Boy, his group was nearly 2".

Is it possible to achieve sub 1 inch groups consistently whilst also landing your shots on a specific target area with a sub 12ft lb rifle? I don't think so.

I'd love to be wrong, but I've got to agree with Terry, Gary and Ben, wind is the factor, and not just wind, breeze, light breeze and even the slightest shift in the air. It will take your pellets left and right or up and down and, while they may still group, they will not land consistently on the target.

This is why Harry ruffled so many feathers, he claimed to be able to combine grouping at range with pin-point accuracy on a target area and then use this skill to take down live prey. I'm not dismissing his claims because I am not able to make a judgement on the weather conditions in an elevated location in Australia but I very much doubt he would be able to demonstrate his findings in this country.

Looking forward to seeing where this one goes!

[Terry D]

... i dont shoot above 80 yds with an air rifle, and i dont have a FAC rated one to try, but if a sub 12ft/lb rifle can consistantly and humanly drop quarry at 80 yds and below then i dont disbelieve that a weapon with almost X3 the power cant do it!

Erm...can we clarify this point before it all kicks off, Kenny?

Are you saying you shoot live quarry out to 80 yards with a sub-12 rifle?

Sorry if I've misconstrued, I've been up since 5 am.

All the best.

[Born Again]

Erm...can we clarify this point before it all kicks off, Kenny?

Are you saying you shoot live quarry out to 80 yards with a sub-12 rifle?

Sorry if I've misconstrued, I've been up since 5 am.

All the best.

A valid point, but are you highlighting it to deflect attention from the subject of Harry ?

Just asking, like.

[Baldie]

I would have thought trying to get a 1" group with any [light] projectile at 100 yards using air gun speeds would have been an exercise in futility if there were any sort of breeze or wind.

I've also hunted for years out to 80 yards and watched small wind variances move the pellets. I have NO problem with people claiming super accurate technique, super accurate guns, perfect pellets. Way beyond my ability - but that's no reason to decry it. It's the wind that stops you being able to produce that perfect shot to order.

Harry asserts you can read the wind. I say you can't at that distance. I have a grand that says that nobody else can.

all this talk of windless conditions, bolox!! the whole point is it doesnt matter what the wind is but say you go oout tomorrow and put up a yd square sheet of paper at 100 yds, draw a dot near the top, all your doing is aiming at the dot! doesnt matter if the pellets strikes 2 feet below the dot and the 7mph wind blows the pellet 16 inches to the left, the point is if the rifle is shooting consistantly at a known power, the pellets are reasonable all the same with no visual damage or impairments and the wind remains at 7mph and the rifle is shot from the same position every time!

you could do it canting the rifle at 30 degrees if you liked or even upside down, but as long as the 5 shot group all all shot in the exact same position and the constants are all the same!

by constants i mean anything that could alter the flight or trajectory of the pellet!

There's nothing constant about wind, and over 100 yards to 150 yards, I'd expect a couple of variations over the route. How can anyone 'read' two or three different speeds of something that's invisible and remote?

In these conditions it would be hard (if not impossible) to get an HMR round [20grn] travelling at 2500fps to group inside an inch at 150 yards. It may well be capable of it in still air, (just), but in even light (variable) wind?

As I suggested, it would need something like the inside of an aircraft hangar [windless] to prove the air rifle/pellet combination was even a possibility at producing sub inch groups around 100+ yards.

I'd be interested to hear about ANY air rifle/pellet combination that could better an HMR in accuracy, and so would most FAC shooters.


In that light, I'd say Gary needn't worry much about paying out on his challenge any time soon.

[RichardH]

Depending on your skill at shooting it a 30ftlb rifle will extend your range considerably, plus of course much more hitting power, ignore people that say it only gives you a few yards extra, either they cant get an FAC or they cant shoot usually

I have humanely despatched rabbits in excess of 100yds with one in the right conditions and that aint BS its fact although the Ripley I was using was over 30ftlb, 80yds will be no problem if its a calm day

Case in point