Firearms saftey consultation - inculdes airguns & minature rifle ranges

[Jesim1]

Jesim was saying the issue was that anyone could run a range and they still can.

Sorry, perhaps my example of the loop hole was not clear as I meant it.

My feelings are that a non FAC holder who has had no kind of checks on his behaviour/character can buy, use, hire out FAC guns under the minirange clause to members of the public or for themselves, effectively sidestepping any kind of gun control. The actual running of the range was not the issue as such, but obviously in conjunction with the above it makes sense for us to ensure a range is run by law abiding responsible and trained individuals where guns and ammo are sold to someone who has been checked and deemed fit to do so.

We have to jump through hoops to get an FAC for just one gun, yet as it stands, a person using the above loophole can buy a dozen guns with almost no checks and use them with little in the way of control.

I hope that makes it clearer as I would like to see more ranges not less, but I'd like them to be safe and a positive reflection on the sport.

James

[RobF]

Sorry, perhaps my example of the loop hole was not clear as I meant it.

My feelings are that a non FAC holder who has had no kind of checks on his behaviour/character can buy, use, hire out FAC guns under the minirange clause to members of the public or for themselves, effectively sidestepping any kind of gun control. The actual running of the range was not the issue as such, but obviously in conjunction with the above it makes sense for us to ensure a range is run by law abiding responsible and trained individuals where guns and ammo are sold to someone who has been checked and deemed fit to do so.

We have to jump through hoops to get an FAC for just one gun, yet as it stands, a person using the above loophole can buy a dozen guns with almost no checks and use them with little in the way of control.

I hope that makes it clearer as I would like to see more ranges not less, but I'd like them to be safe and a positive reflection on the sport.

James

It does, and I agree.

[SuffolkRifle]

As for the mini-range for .22 rimfire and the mini-range for airguns being under the same ruling, sounds a bit daft - a fairground airgun 'range' (knock the 5 fingers down) the same rules as a live-fire?

[RobF]

As for the mini-range for .22 rimfire and the mini-range for airguns being under the same ruling, sounds a bit daft - a fairground airgun 'range' (knock the 5 fingers down) the same rules as a live-fire?

I'm not sure how they even can be. I think it's a widow from the definition of a mini range which mentions the shooting of airguns, but airguns can't be put on FAC (unless s1), and you can't get an FAC for them (because of that, and I have tried). You'd still be able to shoot airguns like you can at an HO approved FAC club, but shooting them on an non FAC range doesn't demand you need an FAC either. If you catch my drift.

It does point again to people who don't understand the act are the ones making proposals on the consultation. I'm not sure there's a way around that but hopefully the organisations who are consulted will explain that to the relevant committee.

[SuffolkRifle]

I'm not sure how they even can be. I think it's a widow from the definition of a mini range which mentions the shooting of airguns, but airguns can't be put on FAC (unless s1), and you can't get an FAC for them (because of that, and I have tried). You'd still be able to shoot airguns like you can at an HO approved FAC club, but shooting them on an non FAC range doesn't demand you need an FAC either. If you catch my drift.

It does point again to people who don't understand the act are the ones making proposals on the consultation. I'm not sure there's a way around that but hopefully the organisations who are consulted will explain that to the relevant committee.

That's the thing, but when I read the section on miniature ranges, it reads as though a 'fairground range' operates under the same rules as a 'live fire' miniature range, though private ownership of the two 'weapons' are under different conditions.

[angrybear]

That's the thing, but when I read the section on miniature ranges, it reads as though a 'fairground range' operates under the same rules as a 'live fire' miniature range, though private ownership of the two 'weapons' are under different conditions.

Yes you're correct they do both operate under the same rule, because members of the public are allowed to shoot on the mini-range,
private ownership conditions are neither here nor there for that purpose because the range operates under it's own rules,
Presumably in the past fairs did use .22 rimfire.

The points are;
1/ at the moment anyone can set up as a mini range & go out & buy S1 firearms & ammo "for that mini range" without need for a Firearms Certificate.
2/ at the moment the term mini rifle is not adequately defined to only mean .22 rimfire

[RobF]

Well both are defined by a certain extent, it has to adhere to the HO club criteria, and their guidance makes their interpretation clear.

So no, no one can just go out and start one because Sect 21 of the acts prevents some, HO rules on clubs would pick up others, and .223 wouldn't be deemed within interpretation.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...l_2016_v20.pdf

18. 5

Whilst there is no legal definition of a miniature rifle, other than one which does not exceed
.23 inch in calibre, it is generally accepted that this refers only to rifles firing .22 rimfire
cartridges (see also chapter 6). Persons using the range are exempt from holding a firearm
certificate only whilst using such miniature rifles and ammunition at such a range or gallery.
Home Office approval can only be granted to a miniature rifle club if it can adhere to the
Home Office’s club criteria.

[SuffolkRifle]

Yes you're correct they do both operate under the same rule, because members of the public are allowed to shoot on the mini-range,
private ownership conditions are neither here nor there for that purpose because the range operates under it's own rules,
Presumably in the past fairs did use .22 rimfire.

The points are;
1/ at the moment anyone can set up as a mini range & go out & buy S1 firearms & ammo "for that mini range" without need for a Firearms Certificate.
2/ at the moment the term mini rifle is not adequately defined to only mean .22 rimfire

This is the thing that is absolutely idiotic - if it comes to having to have a FAC to run a mini-range, then the airgun 'ranges' will close and not be able to return, so that term does need to be clarified. I did mention that when I filled out the form.
Yes, fairgrounds used to use .22 rimmies (father and uncle can remember using them) but obviously cheaper to use airguns nowadays.