Mechanical advantage of Spring Guns vs Pneumatic pump airguns

[springfieldm6]

Wasn’t it Cardew who experimented with a spring gun using nitrogen rather than air, and found the power considerably down due to the lack of dieseling? Another factor regarding energy comparisons.....

[Jerry Cornelius]

Wasn’t it Cardew who experimented with a spring gun using nitrogen rather than air, and found the power considerably down due to the lack of dieseling? Another factor regarding energy comparisons.....

It was indeed.

According to cardew he got an overall efficiency of 5% pumping up a pneumatic

He got 25-35% efficiency from springers. So pneumatics c six times less efficient , about where Geezer and Tom Gaylord had it.

[45flint]

It was indeed.

According to cardew he got an overall efficiency of 5% pumping up a pneumatic

He got 25-35% efficiency from springers. So pneumatics c six times less efficient , about where Geezer and Tom Gaylord had it.

Thanks for the info

[MDriskill]

Apologies in advance for pulling things out of my rusty memory instead of looking them up, but one way to think of it is that a springer uses a small volume of air at high pressure, where an MSP uses a larger volume of air at lower pressure. I vaguely recall reading "somewhere" that the pressure difference is an order of magnitude, like maybe 200 PSI stored in the pump gun's chamber, vs. 2000 PSI generated for an instant in a 12 FPE springer?

I grew up on "pump guns" and as much as I've come to prefer springers in my dotage - the light weight, variable power, fixed barrel, and recoil-free firing cycle of my ancient Benjamin "Tootsie Roll" 347 are still great. When I am asked by a "non airgun" friend to recommend one airgun for plinking or pesting, I most often steer them toward an MSP.

[Geezer]

Apologies in advance for pulling things out of my rusty memory instead of looking them up, but one way to think of it is that a springer uses a small volume of air at high pressure, where an MSP uses a larger volume of air at lower pressure. I vaguely recall reading "somewhere" that the pressure difference is an order of magnitude, like maybe 200 PSI stored in the pump gun's chamber, vs. 2000 PSI generated for an instant in a 12 FPE springer?

I grew up on "pump guns" and as much as I've come to prefer springers in my dotage - the light weight, variable power, fixed barrel, and recoil-free firing cycle of my ancient Benjamin "Tootsie Roll" 347 are still great. When I am asked by a "non airgun" friend to recommend one airgun for plinking or pesting, I most often steer them toward an MSP.

You might find this recent thread interesting.

http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread.php?879722-Pumpers

[45flint]

Apologies in advance for pulling things out of my rusty memory instead of looking them up, but one way to think of it is that a springer uses a small volume of air at high pressure, where an MSP uses a larger volume of air at lower pressure. I vaguely recall reading "somewhere" that the pressure difference is an order of magnitude, like maybe 200 PSI stored in the pump gun's chamber, vs. 2000 PSI generated for an instant in a 12 FPE springer?

I grew up on "pump guns" and as much as I've come to prefer springers in my dotage - the light weight, variable power, fixed barrel, and recoil-free firing cycle of my ancient Benjamin "Tootsie Roll" 347 are still great. When I am asked by a "non airgun" friend to recommend one airgun for plinking or pesting, I most often steer them toward an MSP.

I bought my first and only Airgun 20 years ago a Beeman R1. After retirement 5 years ago I started collecting all kinds of vintage Airguns. The American vintage forums were so enamored by pumpers I have tried my share. I just have fallen in love with prewar springers and am about ready to unload my small pumper collection. They just make no sense to me anymore? I can appreciate the history in the Crosman 101 etc. but but after awhile you start to find the guns that make the most sense to you and those you just love.

[Geezer]

The math(s) is interesting, but there’s also personal experience, which is that even if you are a body-builder pumpers are arduous repeatedly to pump to full power (and slow, compared to a springer, and tend to go clacky-clack each pump which scares things off).

As above and in the other thread, they have a lot to be said for them if you mostly use them at lower power while reserving the option of full-charge when needed.

[pnird]

Surely the main advantage of the springer is that of consistency combined with a minimum of effort?

John

[dvd]

Ssp is ok and was good enough for the 10 m scene, the lack of recoil offsets the generally low power output and effort needed to compress, compared to springers. Multi pumps are too much of a palaver compared to a good Springer or Ssp, never even considered one in the 45 odd years I've been into airguns. Too much work for very little return.
The whizz bang of rapidly compressed air with a hint of a suitable hydrocarbon to warm things a bit further, works best for me😁

[WILBA]

Had a american pumper in the 90's. Think it was a benjamin. Much harder to pump than a sharp innova for sure. Dont mind my backpacker&1377 for plinking but short sessions only. Rather a springer any day for longer sessions.