Lothar Walther vs. Smooth Twist

[rodp]

One other thing that should be taken in to consideration regarding all the hype about smooth twist barrels is ease / cost of manufacturing. If they are (and the hype says they are) just externally formed without dies / cutting tools etc the speed, and therefore cost, of manufacturing will be greatly reduced.
When it comes to profit wording can be manipulated to mean a lot of things

Regarding all the articles about smooth twist, I would take it all with a pinch of salt at the moment. All the reviews and articles so far (that I have seen) have been in magazines and magazines rely on advertising (both current and future), read into that what you will.

I've never seen a smooth twist, let alone tried one, but when I do I'll bear in mind that there's a lot of external forces that can / will try to influence peoples opinion of them.

[Ian Johnstone]

they are MORE expensive to produce than standard barrels, the special 'blanks' (in fact specialist tubing) costs nearly as much as a LW rifled blank (ie. the unworked FX balnks cost nearly as much as the worked LW blanks).

One aspect of the SmoothTwist barrels is their seeming immunity to fouling & they dont cut the pellet resulting in a more uniform projectile.

The guy who made the video is in the States and shoots at FAC levels, he's had an Edgun for a while - they are often messed with to get max power, that could well be his problem here. Most American air gun users select pellets on a weight basis (for some reason ) I've tried to educate them about head sizes etc. but they tell me the makers dont provide the information, well that could also be an issue with his LW barrelled Edgun.

FX will not be making SmoothTwist barrels available to the public.

[Parabuteo]

they are MORE expensive to produce than standard barrels, the special 'blanks' (in fact specialist tubing) costs nearly as much as a LW rifled blank (ie. the unworked FX balnks cost nearly as much as the worked LW blanks).

One aspect of the SmoothTwist barrels is their seeming immunity to fouling & they dont cut the pellet resulting in a more uniform projectile.

The guy who made the video is in the States and shoots at FAC levels, he's had an Edgun for a while - they are often messed with to get max power, that could well be his problem here. Most American air gun users select pellets on a weight basis (for some reason ) I've tried to educate them about head sizes etc. but they tell me the makers dont provide the information, well that could also be an issue with his LW barrelled Edgun.

FX will not be making SmoothTwist barrels available to the public.

Fair Ian

But would the point not also be that the machinery and processes are considerably faster, and rejection rate lower (just supposition on my part there having been briefed on smooth twist) so this would offset the fact that the blank is more expensive (at the moment).

The system is still in development to an extent, so best wait and see

Moreover, the barrel is as stated, less prone to fouling, less pellet fussy, and may (or may not be) a match for match barrels....with much less variables.

It is also slightly more efficient in PCP form, which has to also be a usefull spin off.

Technological advances these days are seldom major leaps, but more often not a bit here and there.

Smoothtwist may tick all the boxes yet, particularly for mass production

[derekm]

To put cost of blanks into perspective, the Americans can have a Lothar Walther barrel machined and fitted to their gun for around $120, that's £75, for a one-off custom job. Now if the smooth twist barrel blank is twice as much as the Lothar, it should hardly make a huge difference to the total cost of a gun.

There's maybe a good grain of truth in Hares Ear's earlier post.

If it's more expensive, it must be better, even if there's no commercial need for it to be more expensive.

Flavour of the month works in most hobbies

[A685]

Was after one cos I thought have to change a caliber,but as much I ask the answer was not available yet.So we just dreaming.....

[Murphy]

If FX own the rights to this barrel what is the point in banging on about being able to own one.

Unless you buy an FX rifle you wont.

And IMO FX rifles are very overpriced and not that good.

And as for improving accuracy nearly all airguns have one hole accuracy now,

at the ranges most people use them anyway.

So my question is how can you get MORE accuracy than what's already available?!

[Parabuteo]

If FX own the rights to this barrel what is the point in banging on about being able to own one.

Unless you buy an FX rifle you wont.

And IMO FX rifles are very overpriced and not that good.

And as for improving accuracy nearly all airguns have one hole accuracy now,

at the ranges most people use them anyway.

So my question is how can you get MORE accuracy than what's already available?!

I cannot see one company getting the rights to this Murph.

If it works out it could well be quite a widespread thing...on the other hand...But who knows.

The point is that a barrel can be made, more quickly, with less likelyhood of rejection (I base that on less to go wrong as long as the blank is made correctly) that is much more tolerant of different pellet types.

Even if accuracy is comparable, the other factors may weigh in it's favour.

This may men that we have to worry less about batch numbers, pellets going out of production, etc etc.

Ben is also doing experiments with varying degress of twist and numbers of...err...dents, (corresponding with grooves on a conventional barrel). These have turned up some interesting results by all accounts.

Apparently the smooth twist made quite an impression on a well known semi auto rimmie too.

I have one of the rounds fired by it, uncanilly smooth.

I think it may be a whole can of worms that sound as though it was worth opening.

I think half the problem is that Ben is (quite rightly) very secretive and exploring all of the possible applications before licenses get sold etc. As a result, we think things are either not progressing, or react to heresay or conjecture.

I am only working on what he has told me, and what I have heard from others who have tested the barrel and the Airgun press.

[bengarzy]

One other thing that should be taken in to consideration regarding all the hype about smooth twist barrels is ease / cost of manufacturing. If they are (and the hype says they are) just externally formed without dies / cutting tools etc the speed, and therefore cost, of manufacturing will be greatly reduced.
When it comes to profit wording can be manipulated to mean a lot of things

Regarding all the articles about smooth twist, I would take it all with a pinch of salt at the moment. All the reviews and articles so far (that I have seen) have been in magazines and magazines rely on advertising (both current and future), read into that what you will.

I've never seen a smooth twist, let alone tried one, but when I do I'll bear in mind that there's a lot of external forces that can / will try to influence peoples opinion of them.

All published tests have been carried out with total honesty, your post suggests that the writers are lying and I influence the outcome by advertising my barrels in there magazines, give me the month and title of the magazine if that is the case or dont put in print something you may regret.
You can come and test SmoothTwist for yourself on our indoor range any time you like if it will make you happy, however I am sure your blinkered aproach will endure.

Ben

Ben

[rodp]

All published tests have been carried out with total honesty, your post suggests that the writers are lying and I influence the outcome by advertising my barrels in there magazines, give me the month and title of the magazine if that is the case or dont put in print something you may regret.
You can come and test SmoothTwist for yourself on our indoor range any time you like if it will make you happy, however I am sure your blinkered aproach will endure.

Ben

Ben

Would you like to point out where I have suggested anyone is actually lying or you have influenced anyone,the actual word was "manipulated". If you don't know what it means I'll get someone to explain. !
Can you please elaborate on my blinkered approach
Lastly, don't threaten me until you have bothered to absorb what's written.

[Hares Ear]

Time will tell.
If accuracy and consistency can be improved with a 'Smooth Twist Barrel' it will not be long before rifled barrels are being phased out.

At present, current production barrels are better than most shooters are capable of shooting them.
Many current airguns in production are easily capable of producing tiny groups now. At airgun ranges any improvement in accuracy alone will not be obvious. Improvement will only be discernable when the minute of angle opens up at ranges far beyond the capabilities of an airgun.
It will take far more than a bloke on a step ladder shooting into a bucket of water, with a handful of bent pellets to convince me of the need to ditch my collection.

[bengarzy]

Time will tell.
If accuracy and consistency can be improved with a 'Smooth Twist Barrel' it will not be long before rifled barrels are being phased out.

At present, current production barrels are better than most shooters are capable of shooting them.
Many current airguns in production are easily capable of producing tiny groups now. At airgun ranges any improvement in accuracy alone will not be obvious. Improvement will only be discernable when the minute of angle opens up at ranges far beyond the capabilities of an airgun.
It will take far more than a bloke on a step ladder shooting into a bucket of water, with a handful of bent pellets to convince me of the need to ditch my collection.

I dont think he was directly trying to influence you or anyone else to "ditch there collection", that would be pointless and stupid, something you seem to be an expert on.

[Terry D]

*Stands...repeatedly pings glass with spoon...*

Gentlemen of the BBS. May we be reminded that polite and respectful debate is the requirement here, as is a reasonable amount of subject knowledge should you decide to make less-than-subtle allegations of 'manipulation for profit'.

As ever, please think before you post and further intervention from the Mods will not be needed.

I thank you.

*Sits...glares...orders more port...*

[oneseven]

I for one think there will be a great market for these barrels on 1022s if they offer any greater accuracy. So many of the aftermarket barrels come from the U.S. at great expense, so the market would eat a homegrown product that shows an improvement over the stock ruger barrel.

There are lots of arguements over the meaning of "pellet fussy" with respect to airgun barrels, but there is no doubt in my mind that a .22lr barrel which would cope better with different manufacturers ammunition would be a real advantage.

[Hares Ear]

I dont think he was directly trying to influence you or anyone else to "ditch there collection", that would be pointless and stupid, something you seem to be an expert on.

As the reply I made this morning has been removed, I will repost it.

I am disapointed, I was eager for you to respond with tests and information, instead you have resorted to personal insults.

[stillair1]

What has got us fac air lads keen is the possibilites of a non fouling barrel which is the achiilies heel of normal rifled barrels.

neil