Latest re: Steyr LP50

[Murphy]

That's good but i would like to see a response from the NY police clowns. They are an embarrassment.

Out of curiosity does anybody know HOW this came to there attention?!

[tacfoley]

Out of curiosity does anybody know HOW this came to there attention?!

Who knows? Nobody else seems to give a hoot.

Perhaps it's the isolation, y'know......all those sheep and cheese and stuff.

tac

[mcmj]

Hi Tac,I hate to contradict you but the pistol is a firearm. The Firearms Act defines a firearm as " a lethal barreled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged and includes any prohibited weapon etc etc "
As an ex Police Inspector, I can assure that if you robbed some one using an air pistol you would be charged with firearms offences.
It may not be a powder burner, but is a firearm!
Best regards,mcmj

[Cocksure]

Hi Tac,I hate to contradict you but the pistol is a firearm. The Firearms Act defines a firearm as " a lethal barreled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged and includes any prohibited weapon etc etc "
As an ex Police Inspector, I can assure that if you robbed some one using an air pistol you would be charged with firearms offences.
It may not be a powder burner, but is a firearm!
Best regards,mcmj

Surely that would relate to your actions, causing fear etc, therefore has no bearing on a sub 6 ft toy
NOT being used in the commission of a crime? Ie in a club members gun box?
If you point a carrier bag with a cucumber in it and say 'I've got a gun' you will be prosecuted for robbery/ firearm, does that make the cucumber a gun? The victims fear of being shot is the measure in this instance...not the cucumber/ steyr pistol.
Re:How did this come to their attention......I wonder eh?
Less than 6ft lb renders a 'pistol' non lethaly barrelled.....and makes it conform to current air pistol legislation. Otherwise youd need an FAC, but you don't so there!! I'm off to shoot shot after shot from my replica berretta pistol, with magazine, working slide with blowback....etc..etc.

[tacfoley]

Hi Tac,I hate to contradict you but the pistol is a firearm. The Firearms Act defines a firearm as " a lethal barreled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged and includes any prohibited weapon etc etc "
As an ex Police Inspector, I can assure that if you robbed some one using an air pistol you would be charged with firearms offences.
It may not be a powder burner, but is a firearm!
Best regards,mcmj

Well, Sir, I'm not an ex-police inspector, but I am an experienced crown witness on firearms-related offences captured on imagery with many court appearances, including the Old Bailey, to my credit.

I am therefore well aware of the penalties of using anything that either IS, or PURPORTS to be, a firearm as described in law.

However, there ARE laws which govern the nature of what is construed to be a firearm, that is to say, a device that requires the possession of a firearms certificate, on mainland UK. The laws are simple and must be as well known to you as they are to anybody else on these pages -

Air pistols up to 6ft lbs m/e are NOT classed as firearms. More than that and you must have an FAC - less and you don't.

Air rifles up to 12 ft lbs m/e are NOT classed as firearms. More than that and you must have an FAC - less and you don't.

These are absolute determining factors, not '6ft lbs or thereabouts'.

Most air pistols sold in this country [excepting NI],especially those made for the purpose of Olympic style shooting, no matter whether or not it is a single shot or, as in this case, a repeater, is made, ex-factory, to 6ft lbs or less, and is therefore outside the remit of 'firearm'.

If they were not, then everybody would require an FAC to buy any of them.

The method of introduction of the pellet to the breech is what seems to be puzzling N. Yorkshire constabulary - but no other police force on mainland UK. I stress the term 'mainland UK' because in Northern Ireland ALL paintball guns and ALL airguns over 1 Joule are classed as firearms and subject to the NI Firearms Act revisions. The Umarex Crosman style revolving magazine has been mentioned as being lawful, simply because it requires a trigger to be pulled to align the pellet with the breech. So has the 'belt'-style magazine of the newer 'SIGs' and earlier Makarov/Baikal-style pistols. The Steyr uses propellant gas to do this, but like all of my examples, still only presents the pellet to the breech of the barrel. A self-loading gun of any kind inserts the projectile into the chamber of the barrel - that is in the definition of a self-loader. It could be argued that the revolver system not only aligns the pellet with the barrel, but further pressure releases the propellant gas that fires it. One clear motion instead of the two that the Steyr needs to do the same thing.

Are ANY of these guns classed as firearms here on mainland UK?

Nope.

tac

[bighit]

For rifles producing more than 12ft.lb,a Firearms Certificate (FAC) is required. Air pistols that produce more than 6ft.lb are prohibited

how many uk shooters have an FAC air pistol?

I'm guessing none.

[Murphy]

For rifles producing more than 12ft.lb,a Firearms Certificate (FAC) is required. Air pistols that produce more than 6ft.lb are prohibited

how many uk shooters have an FAC air pistol?

I'm guessing none.

Im guessing even if you wanted one they fall under the 97 pistol ban.

[bighit]

Im guessing even if you wanted one they fall under the 97 pistol ban.

my assumption too. but I'm no expert

[Murphy]

my assumption too. but I'm no expert

But could you own one before 97 ?

I seem to remember FX made a very nice one for the Americans.

[Cocksure]

Im guessing even if you wanted one they fall under the 97 pistol ban.

This is the point, ALL self loading pistols are banned, single shot only, the police are arguing that this Steyr is in fact a self loader....which it aint!
( whatever the power if it self loads it's banned...the power is unimportant)

What does self load mean? In relation to current toys and airguns? I refer you back to Tac..

[bighit]

This is the point, ALL self loading pistols are banned, single shot only, the police are arguing that this Steyr is in fact a self loader....which it aint!
( whatever the power if it self loads it's banned...the power is unimportant)

this was my point


Air pistols up to 6ft lbs m/e are NOT classed as firearms. More than that and you must have an FAC - less and you don't

[tacfoley]

This is the point, ALL self loading pistols are banned, single shot only, the police are arguing that this Steyr is in fact a self loader....which it aint!
( whatever the power if it self loads it's banned...the power is unimportant)

What does self load mean? In relation to current toys and airguns? I refer you back to Tac..

I give up.

Meanwhile, I'm going out in the backyard to shoot my Steyr LP5 for which I have no FAC or any other kind of permit.

tac

[eyebull]

how many uk shooters have an FAC air pistol?

I'm guessing none.

Brocock TAC owners

[Murphy]

Brocock TAC owners

And didn't only about 20% of them get licensed?!

So we have lots of probably unknowing criminals out there!

[bighit]

And didn't only about 20% of them get licensed?!

So we have lots of probably unknowing criminals out there!

70k to 80k sold and 5k to 6k licensed or handed in apparently.