first load in 223

[severnsider]

Del.

Dont dick about with the OAL and the load at the same time mate. Both will affect the group size, so you wont know what made things worse...if they get worse.

Looking at you loads I would say you have a reasonable amount of room for adjustment. I am shooting 77s over a compressed load of RS52 at 24.6. I am not suggesting you just go and do this, but most of us would see 24gr as a good point with 77gr SMK, so you have a way you can work up to mate. This fairly well replicates the M262 Mod 1 Blackhills match 5.56 loads.

Because we use mags, we are stuck with mag length (you can hand load but for CSR this wont work). However, the excess length has to go somewhere so it ends up compressing the powder in the case. There are some thoughts that this MAY produce a more consistent burn, I dont know, but certainly I have never had any adverse effects.

When you are stuck with mag length, you may not be able to produce the ideal distance off the landes. The main reason to do this is to arrest the bullet momentarilly to allow a peak pressure to build and give a more consistant let off point and harmonic. It is why some of the BR farternity soft seat (allowing the bullet to touch the landes and move back into the case rather than jamming into it).

In many ways this is good news, because it means you only have to mess with the load, however, you may also find that your group reduces in size if you factory crimp the bullet into the neck. This has a similar effect to loading into the landes, and you can be quite harsh with the crimp as it should not cause any issues (Lee's words, not mine). I crimp all of my calibres and have had groups improve with all 3.

Dont feel that you need to crimp, all I am saying is that there is no ideal 1 size fits all load workup, even 2 identical rifles made at the same time may differ. A friend of mine is about to shoot in a pair of identical BAR15s to it will be interesting to see how it goes.

I hope I'm not derailing this thread, but I do have a related question which concerns N140 and 77gr SMK. Both Vihtavuori and Sierra (Edition 5) suggest a range of N140 from 21.0 to 24.7gr and 22.3 to 24.5gr respectively. Both also suggest OAL of 2.26". Now, I'm not particularly interested in maximum loads, but there's no way that I can squeeze 24gr of N140 into a .223 case with a 77gr SMK and get an OAL of 2.26". The most I can get in is 21.5gr for that OAL, which is right at the bottom of the weights suggested by both the powder and bullet manufacturers.
Have I missed the blindingly-obvious somewhere along the line?

[kennyc]

I hope I'm not derailing this thread, but I do have a related question which concerns N140 and 77gr SMK. Both Vihtavuori and Sierra (Edition 5) suggest a range of N140 from 21.0 to 24.7gr and 22.3 to 24.5gr respectively. Both also suggest OAL of 2.26". Now, I'm not particularly interested in maximum loads, but there's no way that I can squeeze 24gr of N140 into a .223 case with a 77gr SMK and get an OAL of 2.26". The most I can get in is 21.5gr for that OAL, which is right at the bottom of the weights suggested by both the powder and bullet manufacturers.
Have I missed the blindingly-obvious somewhere along the line?

compressed load? Chris is a beast of a man, he probably can get an odd extra grain in here or there

[severnsider]

compressed load? Chris is a beast of a man, he probably can get an odd extra grain in here or there

Christ, Ken, if I push it in any harder the case will burst.

[kennyc]

Christ, Ken, if I push it in any harder the case will burst.

[bullbarrel]

I hope I'm not derailing this thread, but I do have a related question which concerns N140 and 77gr SMK. Both Vihtavuori and Sierra (Edition 5) suggest a range of N140 from 21.0 to 24.7gr and 22.3 to 24.5gr respectively. Both also suggest OAL of 2.26". Now, I'm not particularly interested in maximum loads, but there's no way that I can squeeze 24gr of N140 into a .223 case with a 77gr SMK and get an OAL of 2.26". The most I can get in is 21.5gr for that OAL, which is right at the bottom of the weights suggested by both the powder and bullet manufacturers.
Have I missed the blindingly-obvious somewhere along the line?

I use this load for shooting on the local range to 600 yards. I use 24gr of N140 and col of 2.650 in my Tikka T3. I don't think its compressed.

Have you measured your rifle's ideal COL? Could be it will give you the room for those extra grains.

Or just load a test round (not primer or powder) to 2.650 and see if it fits in the mag and chamber. If so, try to see how many more grains you can get in

Remember to measure it again when you take it out of the rifle to make sure the bullet hasn't been pushed in a bit.

[severnsider]

I use this load for shooting on the local range to 600 yards. I use 24gr of N140 and col of 2.650 in my Tikka T3. I don't think its compressed.

Have you measured your rifle's ideal COL? Could be it will give you the room for those extra grains.

Or just load a test round (not primer or powder) to 2.650 and see if it fits in the mag and chamber. If so, try to see how many more grains you can get in

Remember to measure it again when you take it out of the rifle to make sure the bullet hasn't been pushed in a bit.

That's interesting, thank you. A COL of 2.650 will not fit the magazine, but I have tried a couple of other cases (Remington) and now it looks as though 24gr N140 will go in with slight crunching and give COL of 2.280". A good reason for checking case capacities In the first place! I'm not comfortable with compressed loads though so will abandon this idea which was to use the longer, heavier bullets for 600 yard shooting (in an AR-style rifle, hence the need to use the magazine).

[kennyc]

That's interesting, thank you. A COL of 2.650 will not fit the magazine, but I have tried a couple of other cases (Remington) and now it looks as though 24gr N140 will go in with slight crunching and give COL of 2.280". A good reason for checking case capacities In the first place! I'm not comfortable with compressed loads though so will abandon this idea which was to use the longer, heavier bullets for 600 yard shooting (in an AR-style rifle, hence the need to use the magazine).

I would PM parabuteo as he is using an AR with longer bullets

[severnsider]

I would PM parabuteo as he is using an AR with longer bullets

Yes, I did send him a PM yesterday so I hope he will reply!

[DedIdick]

I use mag length & longer in my AR, mag length for when I need to use the mag, usually use a 75gn Hornady in RG case with 24 gns for mag & 77gn Sierra in a Lapua case with around 24gns but single loaded with my single load platform mag.

[severnsider]

I use mag length & longer in my AR, mag length for when I need to use the mag, usually use a 75gn Hornady in RG case with 24 gns for mag & 77gn Sierra in a Lapua case with around 24gns but single loaded with my single load platform mag.

Thanks very much. Further investigation is needed on my part I think! Spoke with Bob at SGC and he reckoned 24.5 of VarGet was a popular load. I hear there's a small stockpile kept under heavy guard in the vicinity of Inverness

[bullbarrel]

That's interesting, thank you. A COL of 2.650 will not fit the magazine, but I have tried a couple of other cases (Remington) and now it looks as though 24gr N140 will go in with slight crunching and give COL of 2.280".

Sorry, I misread last night. The bullet would need to be out the case to get 2.650! I looked at my reloading log again and its 2.265 using lapua cases and its not compressed.

You've not trimmed the necks too much

[severnsider]

Sorry, I misread last night. The bullet would need to be out the case to get 2.650! I looked at my reloading log again and its 2.265 using lapua cases and its not compressed.

You've not trimmed the necks too much

Well, I was a little surprised and no, the cases are the proper length. I'm going for 22.5gr, long drop tube, and 2.26". Thanks for the info though.

[bullbarrel]

Well, I was a little surprised and no, the cases are the proper length. I'm going for 22.5gr, long drop tube, and 2.26". Thanks for the info though.

Its interesting that you are almost 10% less capacity. I wonder what affect its having on pressure.

If you weigh the 77gr bullets it doesn't say 79gr by any chance

What cases are they? Thick brass?

Lots of places on the net I can see people using 24gr with col ~2.260/5 and no one mentions compressed loads.

Are you using the regular SMKs (9377) or the tipped version (7177) which are slightly longer so the same col will push the bullet back in the case.

I'd like to try the 90s or the 95s but need a 1:6.5 twist. Time to get a Valkyrie

[severnsider]

Its interesting that you are almost 10% less capacity. I wonder what affect its having on pressure.

If you weigh the 77gr bullets it doesn't say 79gr by any chance

What cases are they? Thick brass?

Lots of places on the net I can see people using 24gr with col ~2.260/5 and no one mentions compressed loads.

Are you using the regular SMKs (9377) or the tipped version (7177) which are slightly longer so the same col will push the bullet back in the case.

I'd like to try the 90s or the 95s but need a 1:6.5 twist. Time to get a Valkyrie

Hi again! Bullets are definitely 77gr regular SMK; brass is Remington and measures up as it should. Like you, I can find loads of references to 24gr with COL 2.260.
I have gone with 22.5gr and can just hear a slight crunching as I seat the bullet.
Perhaps I'm just nervous, but will see how they perform next week.

Have just also loaded 175gr TMK for the .308. Local component vendor says to bung in 44gr N140 and seat to 2.800 COL. No way........ That exceeds the published maximum and in any case the bullet won't go in with that much powder unless a lot of force is used. Perhaps my idea of a "compressed" load is rather less adventurous than some others, but I prefer not to have to hammer the bolt open after a shot.