Long range airgun shooting

[JohnBam]

This subject has got me wondering something.

Do we believe the rifle and pellet combo is incapable of the sub 1 ich feat or simply, no man can pull it off consistantlly (excuse the pun).

Do you think todays rifles can theoretically pull this off consistantlly in ideal positions, ie clamped in a windless or constant slight side wind (as per Harry) and some sort of device doing the trigger work. And weighed and sized good BC pellets.

Or, is the beef with the shooters ability and the conditions being far from the ideal.

Out of interest Terry, what kind of results you getting?

[RichardH]

I've seen groups close to an inch at 100 with an Eliminator.

Baz has posted of hitting shotgun cases regularly at that distance with some Theoben or other

Sid or Craig have pulled of something close with a Career

It can certainly be done with an FAC airgun at 100 but I suspect is very sensitive to hold, rifle consistency and ammunition performance.

After all with a centrefire its commonplace so the human element is definately do-able its velocity consistency, wind variation and bc that are the killers

Richard

[Sid]

I think the lowest power I ever tried for 100 yard shooting was something like 20ftlbs worth of 15 grain .22, whatever that works out at in terms of velocity. I can't remember the group sizes, but they must have been fairly unimpressive because I didn't bother again after a couple of sessions.

The Career was certainly capable of something like an inch at 100 yards when everything went OK, but that was using about 45ftlbs energy with a 21 grain Bis Mag. I actually used to write all the group sizes and wind conditions etc down in a little notebook, but god knows where it is now.

What gets my goat is when the claims go from paper to live quarry ( like Harry " I never missed a rabbit even at 100+ yards " Fuller ). I'm no bunnyhugger, but at the end of the day they are living creatures, not convenient reactive targets.

[Terry D]

Out of interest Terry, what kind of results you getting?

Using rifles from 12 ft.lbs. to 60 ft.lbs., all of which would do one-holers at 50 yards, I shot off a sandbag rest in air that was as still as we could get it - i.e. not showing visible disturbance, and at 100 yards I produced 10-shot groups that ranged from pellet-on pellet to 6 inches in diameter. The trouble was, none of the really tight groups came from consecutive pellets! It was this inconsistency that frustrated me.

Had there been a selection of small targets down at the target end, say 12-bore cartridge cases placed end-on, then they would have been hit quite regularly, but not consistently and certainly not consecutively. Anyone watching would have concluded that it's possible to hit a one-inch target at 100 yards with an air rifle, but they'd also be forced to admit that it was far from an exact piece of shooting.

[flims]

Using rifles from 12 ft.lbs. to 60 ft.lbs., all of which would do one-holers at 50 yards, I shot off a sandbag rest in air that was as still as we could get it - i.e. not showing visible disturbance, and at 100 yards I produced 10-shot groups that ranged from pellet-on pellet to 6 inches in diameter. The trouble was, none of the really tight groups came from consecutive pellets! It was this inconsistency that frustrated me.

Had there been a selection of small targets down at the target end, say 12-bore cartridge cases placed end-on, then they would have been hit quite regularly, but not consistently and certainly not consecutively. Anyone watching would have concluded that it's possible to hit a one-inch target at 100 yards with an air rifle, but they'd also be forced to admit that it was far from an exact piece of shooting.

hi terry, i liked what you said however there is a point im cross with. even if the rifle groups one inch all the time all day long, i still wouldnt say i can hit targets all day long at the distance. ive been posting videos online of long range shooting for a couple of months. some of my groups even at further distances are quite good but unless i dial correctly for the wind i wont get a hit, and if the wind happens to gust from 1/2way to 3/4 of the distance im shooting, the group opens up again. if one looks at the 1000 yard competitions, this is very true. you will have many rifles that group under a 1MOA at that distance, but because of wind and gusting winds groups still tend to open up widely at times. whole point is, you can do so much till it leaves the barrel, but once in mid air you can only watch to follow up with yor next shot.
why don't you try it indoors if you just want to see the capability of the weapons, that way you eliminate the odds.

[Baldie]

I would have thought trying to get a 1" group with any [light] projectile at 100 yards using air gun speeds would have been an exercise in futility if there were any sort of breeze or wind.

Wouldn't you need a warm - dry - windless environment to do this? Which by default will mean somewhere overseas?

From what I've heard this Harry chap is a credible individual with an earned (good) reputation. I understood he was banned on the strength of what he said he shot with [FAC grade] air rifles. There is, after all, a sticky in the Rimfire section that clearly states Banning follows discussion of shooting specified quarry with air rifles. Zero tolerance too.


That said, don't we all deserve a second chance? If he has the limitations of posting here explained to him, (if he hasn't already) perhaps he could be allowed back to discuss his methods? One thing is for sure. He has a significant envionmental advantage over anyone shooting in the UK ......

Unless you know someone willing to let you use firearms in an aircraft hanger. <windless 100/150 yard range>

...

[Born Again]

I got an inch-ish 10 shot group at 70yds on my first attempt, without proper equipment.

I'm going to try again, but the weather since the first attempt hasn't been suitable.

Even with the right kit I doubt I'll ever manage it at 100yds with a 12ft/lb rifle.

[snock]

I seem to remember Harry was claiming sub 1" groups at 150 yards, not 100.

[Woodie]

but you can't really compare a 18ft.lbs to a 27ft.lbs, big difference.

[Baldie]

I seem to remember Harry was claiming sub 1" groups at 150 yards, not 100.

So I hear. Does that mean 150 yard shots are a banning offence?

[Gary C]

I seem to remember Harry was claiming sub 1" groups at 150 yards, not 100.

Indeed

But again let me stress, I do not disbelieve anybody who says that they have done this. I call anybody a liar who says they can go out, feel the wind, judge it, and put 5 shots into a 1" circle at 150 yards with certainty.

Harry played the game, but then his "embellishment" went OTT with the claims of "never missing" etc.

Sadly, once caught out as a blatant fantasist every other claim is then brought into question.

Just another lonely old josser with too much time on his hands sadly IMHO

[figjam]

.......

[Gary C]

I've said what I think of his exaggeration but what a shot in the arm he's given a lot of folks shooting. If this long range shooting takes off it will certainly be good for rifle development and pellet quality.

Hats off the the old chap for this!

[stillair1]

Perhaps a sticky at the top regarding live shooting at beyond extreme ranges would encourage a good debate without sanctioning people in this section.

[RichardH]

I've said what I think of his exaggeration but what a shot in the arm he's given a lot of folks shooting. If this long range shooting takes off it will certainly be good for rifle development and pellet quality.

Hats off the the old chap for this!

Here we agree mate

I can see 100 Yard (or 150 if anyone feels brave) benchrest shooting resulting in many significant moves forward in both barrel and pellet technology.

It also shouldnt be forgotten that if a competetive structure exists then such competitions or practicing for them would be good reason for the grant of an FAC airgun, after all a .308 for benchrest is easy to get.

Everyone wins

Richard