Original Model 50 dating help.

[bloodnok]

Hi Everyone, After being away from airgunning for 30 years I made a bit of a rash purchase last weekend at a local carboot sale.
As a kid I had the normal BSA's, Webleys and even a Sharp Innova, but I always lusted after the Original Model 50. Prices were were beyond my reach, until last weekend!
Spotted one on a stall at the bootsale, did the deal and picked it up a couple of days later. Since then I've been googling like mad to find as much information about these lovely rifles as I can, but I'm a bit perplexed with my one. I can't seem to pin down the date of it by it's features.

Most of the posts I can find show about 3 basic stock shapes (early to late), but mine is more sculpted at the fore-end, and has more chequering. It has the made in germany on the rear of the main cylinder, but no date letters. The only numbers I can find are where the stock bolt goes through the underlever and are 419. Not sure that these are date related though! There's no caliber stamped near the loading tap either! (It's a .22)
Overall, I'm really happy with the rifle, it's certainly not mint, but is nice well used condition. Crucially it has it's open sights all complete, and they look original.

I've bought a tin of Eley wasps from the local gun shop and have got details of the local air rifle club, so I'm just waiting for the next club night now!

Any help in dating my rifle most greatfuly recieved, and hopefully below is a link to an album of Photos of it.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bloo...del%2050/story

[landymick]

Looks very nice,i think its an early model 19 sixties maybe.The first ones in 1952 or so had West Germany stamped on them.It may be a 50M but i thought these had a cheek piece & the 50B had a finger groove on the for end.It could be a later 50B model like the 35B with the checkering style.
I'm sure some one will know the 50's age or try the vintage forum.

[I. J.]

'.......Eley Wasp......' Are you sure ? Does it actually say ELEY anywhere on the tin lid? http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Airs...ml?sort=6&o=92If it does - has the shop got any left?

ATB
Ian

[bloodnok]

'.......Eley Wasp......' Are you sure ? Does it actually say ELEY anywhere on the tin lid? http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Airs...tml?sort=6&o=8If it does - has the shop got any left?

ATB
Ian

Didn't spot that! Just assumed they were still made by Eley!
My exscuse is that I'm still traumatised by buying a manly Lilac tin instead of a nice bright blue one that I used to use !

[bloodnok]

Looks very nice,i think its an early model 19 sixties maybe.The first ones in 1952 or so had West Germany stamped on them.It may be a 50M but i thought these had a cheek piece & the 50B had a finger groove on the for end.It could be a later 50B model like the 35B with the checkering style.
I'm sure some one will know the 50's age or try the vintage forum.

Thanks for your reply. I think the 'M' had a deeper stock, but with similar chequering. The base of the rear sight looks to be made of plastic, so I'd have thought (maybe incorrectly!), that it would be later, rather than earlier.

[junglie]

Don't be surprise if you can't hit anything with those wasps,while the original ones were very good these modern copies are rubbish. go buy a tin of h&n ftt, rws hobbys or superdomes etc & see the difference. My .22 liked hobbys for close to medium range but best with ftt's.

[air-tech]

No date stamp = pre 67.

The stock is 50B

The rearsight, that's odd. I never saw that style of rearsight on a 50B.

Normally found on slightly later years possibly 67 on when they started stamping the date.

If after removing the rearsight you find proper threaded inserts to accept it's screws then it's a factory job if you find just threads through the cylinder then someone has fitted the rear sight.

However it does look very correct. The presence of a full length scope rail also indicates that this is probably a "late" 50B when it had the older style of rearsight the rear rail would normally be only just long enough to accept the rear sight with diopter fitting.

So does the front sight match with it being relatively late. I'd say somewhere close to '66.

[bloodnok]

Many thanks for your help air-tech.
The stock seems to have all the same chequering and sculpted front end as the 'M' model, but isn't deep forward of the trigger, and the butt doesn't have a cheek piece.
The trigger is the later (from what I can gather googling) pressed steel one with two adjustment screws (although one is missing), and the trigger guard sits on a steel spacer.
To me (again, after googling!) the sights look original, I'll take off the rear sight tomorrow to see what's underneath, whilst giving the gun a wipe over with some oil. You can change the element on the foresight by unscrewing the rear threaded collar. The aft sight has a plate with 4 different notches in it, as described by other owners.

After lots more googling there do seem to a few of these out there, but no one seems to be able to date the stock style, and one person has suggested that it may be an optional 'de-luxe' stock.

Many thanks again for all the help.

[bloodnok]

Don't be surprise if you can't hit anything with those wasps,while the original ones were very good these modern copies are rubbish. go buy a tin of h&n ftt, rws hobbys or superdomes etc & see the difference. My .22 liked hobbys for close to medium range but best with ftt's.

Thanks for the advice. I just went for what I used to use when I was a kid, and assumed they were still good pellets.

[air-tech]

After lots more googling there do seem to a few of these out there, but no one seems to be able to date the stock style, and one person has suggested that it may be an optional 'de-luxe' stock.

Many thanks again for all the help.

It's not really a deluxe stock, it's simply a 50B stock.

Depending on the period, up to '67 there was a 50E which had a sporter stock with no chequering and basic sights (varying throughout the years), 50B same action different stock (as yours) and better sights, 50M same action different stock and diopter fitting on the rearsight as standard. Still always the same action but rather than saying 50 with basic, deluxe or match stock and sights, Diana called them E, B, and M.

There were many minor variations throughout the many years that the 50 was in production, mostly up to 1967 then they seem to have cut down on them. After this date it seems a sporter version with pressed reverse chequering at the grip was offered, no E B or M stuff. Afterwards, 70s into the 80s (?) the stock style changed to a more blocky type with the same chequering, then the T01 version came out with an extended cocking lever and larger cylinder with greater power potential. A military style version of this was also available with a winged front sight, parkerised finish and no chequering anywhere.

[abellringer]

Not a response to the rifle thread, this has been superbly covered by several knowledgeable posts, but to the 'Eley' pellets. Eley actually stopped production many years ago; a UK supplier was supposed to have had the dies and resumed production, however the first eagerly awaited [.177] batch were rubbish, we had four different types in one tin and one type actually fell straight through the barrel of a FWB 300s. Regarding the tin being Purple, and I do stand to being corrected if I am wrong;
from memory this is actually 5.6mm being originally sourced by a local shop as being better suited to UK .22 guns, because the continental size of 5.5mm is slightly different and better suited to non-UK production guns, the 5.5mm tin is normally Blue; the Red one being .177 of course. The genuine Eley Wasp .177 were of course the backbone of belltarget shooting in the 60's / 70's / 80's and as recent proof has surfaced in my own club, some shops actually do still have stocks of the genuine pellets, a useful source is fishing tackle and cycle shops, both of whom traditionally sold airguns.
abellringer

[I. J.]

Not a response to the rifle thread, this has been superbly covered by several knowledgeable posts, but to the 'Eley' pellets. Eley actually stopped production many years ago; a UK supplier was supposed to have had the dies and resumed production, however the first eagerly awaited [.177] batch were rubbish, we had four different types in one tin and one type actually fell straight through the barrel of a FWB 300s. Regarding the tin being Purple, and I do stand to being corrected if I am wrong;
from memory this is actually 5.6mm being originally sourced by a local shop as being better suited to UK .22 guns, because the continental size of 5.5mm is slightly different and better suited to non-UK production guns, the 5.5mm tin is normally Blue; the Red one being .177 of course. The genuine Eley Wasp .177 were of course the backbone of belltarget shooting in the 60's / 70's / 80's and as recent proof has surfaced in my own club, some shops actually do still have stocks of the genuine pellets, a useful source is fishing tackle and cycle shops, both of whom traditionally sold airguns.
abellringer

It was the BLUE tins that were 5.6mm (see my earlier posts and photo http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Airs...ml?sort=6&o=92). It was the later PURPLE/LILAC tin that was 5.5mm.
Ive done the rounds of the local and not so local gun shops and fishing tackle shop for the elusive ELEY Wasps to no avail. I did think I'd cracked it when I saw, in a local gun shop a tin of Eley Wasp (.22) side on in front of a pile of similar tins. When I asked for some of the tins behind - they were BISLEY wasps so I refused them. Nice try Mr Gun Shop owner.

HTH
Ian.

[bloodnok]

No date stamp = pre 67.


The rearsight, that's odd. I never saw that style of rearsight on a 50B.

Normally found on slightly later years possibly 67 on when they started stamping the date.

If after removing the rearsight you find proper threaded inserts to accept it's screws then it's a factory job if you find just threads through the cylinder then someone has fitted the rear sight.

Just thought I'd let you know that I took the rear sight off yesterday, and it does have proper factory inserts for the screws.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...psbq1jkbht.jpg

[alarabia]

On my Original Model 50

Where the mark "Made in Germany is a bit further along to the butt end is two marks" 04 78
Also on the barrel is a number 139731.

If this helps !!

[johnbaz]

I have a mod50 with the same rearsight, It's just a standard one though..

Pic 1

Pic 2

Pic 3

Pic 4

I also have some Wasp pellets that I bought, Mostly they're the 5.5 in the lilac tins, the tins marked as Eley are superb quality, the others are not as well formed!!


Wasps!!




John