Model 6M has arrived.... And its actually a Hyscore (plus pics) + an unexpected bonus

[TheWilding]

Well last night my mate came down and delivered the bag of bits to me, uponr inspection its actually marked up as a Hyscore, which after a bit of searching means its and American 6M.


All the bits appear to be there, and a few that are not supposed to be

Some pics I took last night in the cave.....














The cylinder is full of cr@p and in need of a polish, will also give it a bit of a fettle before it all goes together with help from the pages Nige sent me


And.... while he was stood in the man cave drinking tea, he started stroking a couple of my Airsoft guns and offered me an even swap on a Dragunov SVD-S, which I had just finished tuning and only used once in anger, for his Diana Model 50 he's trying to sell.... how could I say no??!!


Sean

[nige346]

Seen em with both the Original and Diana mark but that's the first Hi Score version I've seen and looks to be in very nice condition, Quite a find

[TheWilding]

Quite a find

I assume so, like I said in the other thread he used to run a shooting shop some years ago and he kept it from then, quite what its doing in this country is beyond me, but for what I paid for it I dont really care


Has anyone actually tried to tune one of these pistols, as opposed to just fettle and polish?? Or are they to rare/good to start with to warrant the time and effort?

[nige346]

They don't need tuning , If rebuilt correctly they are great to shoot, There really would be nothing to gain in trying to tune but a lot to lose, They're designed to punch holes in paper targets and have enough power to do so with superb accuracy.

[Rickenbacker]

Interesting stuff! It's like the front of a Mod 10 plus the rest of a Mod 6 !

I still wouldn't want to try fixing it

[thirdwheel]

Tried to PM you this but must have been too large - this is something I wrote up when I rebuilt mine - looks like you have a new seal already.

This is some pointers and advice to those that will rebuild / re seal their Giss (model 6) system pistols at some time. I have just resealed mine and thought it would be a good idea to write up things that you need to be careful of and how to do it right and not damage yourself or the pistol. Here are my thoughts:
• Chambers have the parts / seals etc.
• There are stage by stage rebuild instructions on the net read them all.
• It is not difficult but because it is a well-made piece of kit you need to raise your game when working on it.
• The threads are fine – think clock makers threads.
• Two of the screws could be from a clock and they are easy to loose or damage.
• The rear cylinder cap can be very tight, mine was. The gun was wrapped with a leather welding gauntlet to protect it from the vice yaws but it kept moving. So I used new fibre vice guards on their own , these gripped and did not marks the pistol, these will now go away and only be used for this type of work. I used a leather strap wrench, small chain wrench with leather to protect but to no avail. I used water pump pliers VERY big ones and I mean big, they will open up to 200mm and are big enough to grip the gas suspension balls on Citrioen cars. They are not stilsons! With leather to protect the cap it finally moved, it did not leave a mark.
• The lock screw hole was drilled after it was all assembled so it will have to go to this mark when the end cap goes back on.
• The two little screws that lock the cog bearings holders were also drilled after assembly so must go back on the same side as they come off, mark one with tape and the side of the gun with tape it came from. Use jewellers screw drivers to undo the little screws – do not buy a cheap pound-land set, get some real ones.
• There is one spring that can fly if you are not careful, wear safety glasses and cover it with a cloth when you remove it - it’s the one that holds the bear’s claw I place.
• The trigger has to be removed - easy pin out job, but there is a hair spring on the trigger make sure you take note of how it is fitted before you withdraw the trigger as it could become dislodged.
• I did not remove the barrel – support the cocking mechanism parts as you drift out the pin as it is an interference fit.
• I made up a tool – square taper steel rod fitted into a large file handle, you could use a tang of a file with a cloth around it but do yourself a favour do it right make the tool or a simple spring compressor – this is used to compress the spring and align the rear dummy piston – details are in over haul instructions found on web. Now I have done it without a spring compressor using this tool, I will be making up a simple compressor to help me in the future, as it is a bit of a fiddle / struggle to use this simple tool to replace the cogs on reassembly. Especially as you have lots of newly greased parts and if you drop them you will probably need to degrease them to get the grit off and start over.
• You need to compress the spring by pushing on the rear dummy piston with the tool as you remove the cog bearing caps, the caps will be tight – leather and pliers will work. The caps will probably come away leaving the cogs behind. Fish them out and they should go back in the same side the same was round as they will have warn to match the rack they run on. Put them on a piece of wire that is marked at one end so it correlates with the pistol side and cap that has been marked.
• First de-gunk all parts with white spirit using quality “J” cloths to keep paper towel fibres and lint out of your chamber. Use a dowel rod with a slot cut in it and fit squares of cloth in it to reach right inside the chamber. Dry using new pieces of cloth. Go and de-gunk the springs, pistons, caps and cogs while the chamber dries a bit. Now using a new dowel clean the chamber using acetone.
• Allow to dry, then mix up some graphite powder with acetone and dribble into the chamber – I used a plastic pipette. Allow to dry and then using the dowel rod and a clean cloth burnish the inside of the chamber.
• Remove old washers with a screw driver. The new washers are quite hard material and you could mangle them putting them on. I made a mandrel from some nylon rod turned in the lathe to 12.5 mm then a taper of 7 degrees to allow the seals to slide up and stretch slowly then pushed over the button while the piston is gently held in the vice. The nylon was lubricated with a smidgeon of silicone oil. The button has an OD of 12.2mm on my pistol. Get yourself a set of electric verniers they can now be bought for under £20 and you will use them for all sorts of stuff.
• I lubricated my seal using knox grease and the rest of the gubbins with abby gun moly.
• Putting the front piston in make sure it is the right way up with the runners lining up with the slits in the chamber. Ease the new seal with a blunt screwdriver past all the naughty bits that will try and destroy your good work.
• Spring in, then rear cylinder, now the only real difficult bit, Compress the spring so the cylinder goes in no more than 1.5mm and put in the gear caps with the cogs stuck on them with grease, use no force slightly turn the rear cylinder to get it to go in – first one easy not so the second one. As one write up says it can take 2mins or two hours took me about 5 mins. But you have to keep that compression on and it is this reason I’m making a compressor for next time as you cannot really see what is going on, and it is a bit hit and miss.
• You must now line up the holes to put in the locking screws for the bearing caps and the end cap, use a solid wire (gas welding rod) or a jewellers screw driver to feel when the inner and outer hole align – now you did put the caps on the right side didn’t you! Put a cloth under the gun as you WILL drop the screws and you WILL not see them again. Glue the cap screws to the driver with a blob of grease if it helps and remember FINE threads cross easily. Drive them in with the driver with your fingertips till they stop. If they are too proud the hole alignment is not perfect so keep gentle pressure on the screw and turn the cap slowly back and forward feeling the screw slowly in. For the cylinder cap I found a piece of solid wire the same dia. as the hole and used that to align the two parts but I still needed a little adjustment when the screw was driven in.
• The rest is a simple reversal
• This took me 3 hours but it was the first time that I had taken a pistol to pieces.
Did it make any difference? Well the gun shot pellets and they hit the target and sometimes the holes were near each other sometimes they were somewhere random, to me it seemed to have enough power. With the new seals after about 10 shots they started to close up and after 50 shots I would say this gun is very accurate and seems very crisp.
Hope this helps
George

[TheWilding]

Thirdwheel, if it where at all anatomicaly possible I'd have your babies sir!!

That is an outstanding piece of literature and will help no end..... Now I just need to put my limited computer skills into practice and try to print it off to go with the rest of the stuff I'm slowly managing to compile.

I'm surprised the forum let you host such a long text let alone put it in a PM, I know every time I have done an airsoft guide for a forum I've had to break the long ones up to be able to host them, the PM never arrived by the way.


I think Nige got a bit excited there as to what I might do to it,..... don't worry mate, no red paint and go faster stripes

I was thinking more along the lines of accurately balancing the piston weights, maybe button the trailing ends of the pistons..... that kind of thing, aswell as the usual cylinder and spring polish and re-grease.



Sean

[mikec4]

They don't need tuning , If rebuilt correctly they are great to shoot, There really would be nothing to gain in trying to tune but a lot to lose, They're designed to punch holes in paper targets and have enough power to do so with superb accuracy.

I think Nige got a bit excited there as to what I might do to it,..... don't worry mate, no red paint and go faster stripes

I was thinking more along the lines of accurately balancing the piston weights, maybe button the trailing ends of the pistons..... that kind of thing, as well as the usual cylinder and spring polish and re-grease.
Sean

Nige is right - for 10 metre target shooting, ultimate power is not the Holy Grail; most pistols are accurate at 3-4ft/lbs. More important is a "soft" feel when the shot releases. With 7 grain pellets, 475 ft/sec is more than adequate for accuracy. Having said that, your intentions re balancing pistons, polishing etc can only help.

Keep us posted on your progress

ATB
Mike.

[nige346]

Nige is right - for 10 metre target shooting, ultimate power is not the Holy Grail; most pistols are accurate at 3-4ft/lbs. More important is a "soft" feel when the shot releases. With 7 grain pellets, 475 ft/sec is more than adequate for accuracy. Having said that, your intentions re balancing pistons, polishing etc can only help.

Keep us posted on your progress

ATB
Mike.

I get excited about a lot of things I would build it shoot it and then decide if it requires any further work at least then you'll know if tuning it made a difference, Like the early FWB's these were superbly engineered, very reliable & consistent pistols as were the rifles. Good luck with the build

[p.m.h]

An excellent find, and quite a rare one.

Like many others, I didn't know that this pistol came with a Hyscore branding.

You do have the barrel weight fitted to the front of the sight protection shroud.

Some like this, many don't. The reason being is that it is held in place by two self tappers, and excessive pressure can split the shroud.

I have left mine in place on my Model 10, as I think it improves the lines at the front end, but I do take care when cocking the pistol.

My Model 6G needed resealing, and I did download instructions and check YouTube for videos. However, in the end I sent it to the legendary Lawrie Armatruda.

Dave Mercer (DM80) is also a master at these; I suppose you could narrow it down on who is closest to drop it off.

Kind regards,



Phil

[TheWilding]

I get excited about a lot of things I would build it shoot it and then decide if it requires any further work at least then you'll know if tuning it made a difference, Like the early FWB's these were superbly engineered, very reliable & consistent pistols as were the rifles. Good luck with the build

Sounds a reasonable plan

I have to do a bit of polishing here and there as part of the rebuild, but the fancier stuff I'll save for after its been tested.....


I cant waste to much time on it as otherwise I'll not have it together in time for the next round of the .177 MPL, especially as I'm currently in the middle of frying a bigger fish for the rifle MPL


A couple more questions though..... anyone recommend ammo that it may like? I see mike mentioned 7 grain, and I've read on UBC that lower powered pistols tend to like them too, but which manufacturer would be good to try first?...... I've got half a tin of old copperhead wadcutters that he gave me when I had the Model 24D off of him, but they weigh 7.44 grain so was going to keep them for the rifle MPL


Does anyone know what the differences are between the red and the orange balance washers..... apart from one is red and one is orange


They both appear to be the same thickness, haven't measured them to confirm this yet, and the red has a 2 moulded into it and the orange has a 3 (could be the other way round as I'm writing this from memory (which is now starting to fail me ))


Sean

[nige346]

I used to shoot RWS R10's 4.50 which it seemed to like but also used RWS Geco's when practicing which are "a lot" cheaper and seemed to give good consistency, Not sure about the colours of the washers, When I got mine they were blue so possibly just different manufacture's as I notice rear is now white from Chambers, someone on here may know different, The compensation washers may be older products so check'em carefully as unlike modern materials the old stuff had a habit of turning to chewing gum and breaking up as it aged.

[mikec4]

You might like to try RWS Meisterkugeln in 4.50 as well - they are the contemporary pellets available for Original Model 6 and 10 when the pistols first hit the market.
My FWB 80 likes them as well as R10's.

ATB
Mike

[andrewdorset]

Hi all, just aquired 6g and 10m pistols. These are my first pistols apart from a hw45 i had years ago. Do they both have the same power output ? From memory the hw was very accurate and powerful, but the dianas seem very under powered by comparison. For example at 6m i am aiming way above the target just to hit it. The pellet visibly dives after it leaves the barrel. I am assuming they will need re sealing. Is it likely the springs are u/s or more likely the seals. read the previous on resealing but am a little concerned with the washers at the end of the cylinders. Is it pointless using the old ones in a reseal . I have no way of measuring their thickness accurately, and would not be able to make or refinish them. Both guns are in great condition and from all the searching, everyone says they are accurate and great to shoot so i am willing to get them as they should be.

[p.m.h]

Not chronoed mine for a while, but 420 to 450 fps seems about right.

I have tried Meisterkugeln, but have found no difference when compared to the R10. For some reason I prefer the R10s. I also get them for the same price and they are easier to find.

I have also noticed no difference between the 4.50mm and the 4.49mm.

Kind regards,



Phil