Quickload Help

[kennyc]

Popped into the local gunshop today for some Vhit 133 and they didn't have any. Picked up a partially used tub (approx 20rns used) of 135 for £50 so thought I'd give it a whirl.

Would anyone be able to help me save a few rounds and establish a good optimum charge weight to start with using 53gr V-Max? Max charge weight would also be useful to know

I'm using a standard 223 Tikka T3 Varmint, CCI BR4 primers and new lapua brass. I'll use the same COAL as before which is 2.285"

Any assistance would be much appreciated. I'll hopefully be buying Quickload myself soon. One of my local RFD's introduced me to it briefly and it seemed great with Vhit 133

have you thought about looking at the makers guide manual?

[Elliott]

Yeah, I've got the basic info but I found that Quickload narrowed it down quite a bit more when I was shown it. In fact, it found the perfect load almost straight away. Need to invest in it myself

[tacfoley]

In that case you won't be interested to know that the online manual does not list a 53gr bullet, but only a 52gr bullet, and that the starting load is 23.8gr and top load is 25.6gr, right?

tac

[Elliott]

In that case you won't be interested to know that the online manual does not list a 53gr bullet, but only a 52gr bullet, and that the starting load is 23.8gr and top load is 25.6gr, right?

tac

Yeah, that's what the Vhit online manual states. Using the 52gr bullets as a guide shouldn't be too far off but I'll probably go through 50 rounds before narrowing it down to the good charge weight 'band'.

I was hoping that someone with Quickload could shorten the process for me

[Blacknsilver]

https://youtu.be/8ppH7HHREWk

Thought this link was very interesting.

Could there be Niche in the market if your local RFD had Quickload and was to charge for the usage of it?

[Elliott]

https://youtu.be/8ppH7HHREWk

Thought this link was very interesting.

Could there be Niche in the market if your local RFD had Quickload and was to charge for the usage of it?

Thanks for that. Yes, it's an expensive programme! He's pretty local. Just a small time RFD and does it in addition to his day job. I've found two of them near me recently

[angrybear]

I'd go for the "one book/one calibre" reloading manual for each cal you reload for.
They list both multiple bullets & multiple powders by manufacturers, very useful indeed, & surprising how often the same combination bullet/powder differ from the two relevant manufacturers.

[Jonathan]

have you thought about looking at the makers guide manual?

What the manuals don't take into consideration is the fact that most brands of brass have different internal capacity. The likes of Lapua has more capacity than say, Hornady, so a specified load in a manual might be 3,000psi down when used in a Lapua case. I find QL invaluable, but as stated, you can only confirm accuracy on the range of in the field. There is no substitute for trigger time.

Jonathan.

[simgre]

Internal case volume from the same manufacturer can also vary greatly. Even from the same bag of brass!

QuickLoad was an interesting toy, it that's it. Theoretical that itself stated continually that all actual loadings should be verified with manufacturers published data. Novelty soon wore off and thankfully was able to move it on quickly for close to what I paid for it.

[tacfoley]

What the manuals don't take into consideration is the fact that most brands of brass have different internal capacity. The likes of Lapua has more capacity than say, Hornady, so a specified load in a manual might be 3,000psi down when used in a Lapua case. I find QL invaluable, but as stated, you can only confirm accuracy on the range of in the field. There is no substitute for trigger time.

Jonathan.

This. ^^^

tac

[kennyc]

What the manuals don't take into consideration is the fact that most brands of brass have different internal capacity. The likes of Lapua has more capacity than say, Hornady, so a specified load in a manual might be 3,000psi down when used in a Lapua case. I find QL invaluable, but as stated, you can only confirm accuracy on the range of in the field. There is no substitute for trigger time.

Jonathan.

sorry I thought that would be self obvious? Quickload suffers in the same way as even if you measure the water volume of the case ,the chamber is still an unknown, I personally think some people overthink the whole thing and that for them the purpose of the exercise is theoretical results as opposed to real life results, that said, there is nothing wrong with that approach if its what rocks your boat.

[Jonathan]

sorry I thought that would be self obvious? Quickload suffers in the same way as even if you measure the water volume of the case ,the chamber is still an unknown, I personally think some people overthink the whole thing and that for them the purpose of the exercise is theoretical results as opposed to real life results, that said, there is nothing wrong with that approach if its what rocks your boat.

How can the chamber be an unknown? The chamber will either be cut to SAAMI or CIP specs. There will be minimal differences between chambers, and not enough to make a discernible difference in case capacity. The biggest difference will without a doubt be in the internal capacity of the case.

I don't think it's a case of 'overthinking' or 'what rocks your boat' as reloading for precision shooting is all about the accumulation of all the small details making a difference. Some people may not care about going from, say 0.6moa to 0.3moa group size, but there are those that do, and as I said, it's the small detail that is the difference.

Jonathan.

[kennyc]

How can the chamber be an unknown? The chamber will either be cut to SAAMI or CIP specs. There will be minimal differences between chambers, and not enough to make a discernible difference in case capacity. The biggest difference will without a doubt be in the internal capacity of the case.

I don't think it's a case of 'overthinking' or 'what rocks your boat' as reloading for precision shooting is all about the accumulation of all the small details making a difference. Some people may not care about going from, say 0.6moa to 0.3moa group size, but there are those that do, and as I said, it's the small detail that is the difference.

Jonathan.

the chamber isn't that different? in that case my .308 homeloads would work in Boydy47's .308 ? even though he has pressure signs 2-3 grns before I do!
if you decided to use a high load based on Quickload you may fall foul of a tight chamber, the old way of working a load up is the way forward, the OP was trying to short circuit part of that process,
I just believe in this case that a manual is as good a way to decide on a starting point as any.
As to prescision shooting, its not for me, I shoot mainly off of sticks or a ruck, or the roof of a truck at fast moving targets after having my ribs and kidneys asaulted by the terrain! minute of rabbit works for me

[Jonathan]

the chamber isn't that different? in that case my .308 homeloads would work in Boydy47's .308 ? even though he has pressure signs 2-3 grns before I do!
if you decided to use a high load based on Quickload you may fall foul of a tight chamber, the old way of working a load up is the way forward, the OP was trying to short circuit part of that process,
I just believe in this case that a manual is as good a way to decide on a starting point as any.
As to prescision shooting, its not for me, I shoot mainly off of sticks or a ruck, or the roof of a truck at fast moving targets after having my ribs and kidneys asaulted by the terrain! minute of rabbit works for me

There's more to pressure signs than tight or loose chambers. If the bullet is seated touching the lands on one rifle, but another has a longer throat, then the one touching is going to show pressure signs where the other won't. I agree completely that to work up a load, you need to go shoot it. I said that in an earlier post. Like you, I also shoot game with my rifle but like to hone my skills on long range steels. Aim small, hit small.

Not so sure about shooting fast moving targets off the roof of a truck though, I'll leave that to you. 😉

Jonathan.

[223AI]

There's more to pressure signs than tight or loose chambers. If the bullet is seated touching the lands on one rifle, but another has a longer throat, then the one touching is going to show pressure signs where the other won't. I agree completely that to work up a load, you need to go shoot it. I said that in an earlier post. Like you, I also shoot game with my rifle but like to hone my skills on long range steels. Aim small, hit small.

Not so sure about shooting fast moving targets off the roof of a truck though, I'll leave that to you. 😉

Jonathan.

What Kenny means is rabbits (targets) that will scarper (move) if you don't get the shot off as soon as the opportunity presents, we tend to shoot off the roof of the truck as we may cover 1000-1500 acres in a night over 2 or 3 permissions. We use expanding rounds such as WMR or .22H at relatively short ranges (<100 yards) so precision shooting is not necessary on rabbits and any the get a bit messy go to my very well fed ferrets. As for honing your skills at range, challenge Kenny to a 900 yard match with his k31 and open sights, see who wins

Now we've dealt with ethics..

We all know pressure has more influences than just chamber size or brass volume. As far as I'm aware (I bother another forum member fairly regularly for checking loads that are a bit out there) to use it properly you check the water capacity over a few cases (say 5) and take an average this way you get the fired case / chamber volume for that particular headstamp.

I'm sure it's a useful tool and if you have a sporter barrel that heats very quickly making testing from a cool barrel Very time consuming it will save a lot of time and wasted consumables.