Match pistol for beginner

[Chavez]

Hi!

I'd be grateful for some advice about choosing the right gun.

I have recently tried shooting 10m air pistol (I usually shoot prone rifle) and I really liked it so I decided to get myself an entry-level pistol, so I can occasionally take my mind off the rifles.

I don't want to spend a lot of cash for an olympic grade pistol, so I've narrowed my search down to the following guns:

Izh 46m;
FWB 103 or 100
FWB 65.

Can somebody please let me know what I should expect to pay for these in the UK?

I've read that old FWB 65 may need to have seals changed - is that a common problem?

I'm inclined to buy a new izh, but they seem to cost around £450. A bit steep but if the Izh is much better than used FBW 103/100, I might buy it.

What would you recommend?

If anyone has any of these for sale, please let me know.

Thank you,

Chavez.

[Gerard]

I've no idea regarding UK pricing, but if those are your options I'd suggest the FWB 100/103 series. Less front-heavy than the 46m and with a serious competition history. The 46m isn't bad at all and is certainly accurate. I won my first couple of medals at local matches with mine. But the grip had to be replaced, awful thing, and eventually I modified it extensively to get the weight down. I'd not recommend the FWB spring pistols, the 65 and 80, as they're quite heavy and rather further out of date.

[Fierynick]

Hello,

What sort of budget have you got if you don't mind me asking....

Regards

[Chavez]

I was hoping for a gun under £300, but it seems that going a bit higher results in a much better gun.
£450 is stretching it a little as I expect to keep rifles as my primary sport.

With 46ms I've read that the factory grips are made oversized on purpose, so everyone can file them down to their fit - was that the problem you're referring to?

[Gerard]

No, sorry, I was thumb-typing on my phone and shorted on the details. I should have said that I have rather long and wide hands, so the stock 46m grip was tiny both in width and depth front to back. I started by adding a lot of epoxy putty both front and rear, building it up until it was pretty much huge. Once it felt right I carved a maple grip following the same much larger pattern, with a few small modifications to make the fingers fit even better. The result was what is generally thought of as a 'Russian' style grip. Filling the hand rather than the hand filling the grip. Works for me. I've more recently made one almost the same but actually slightly bulkier for my Pardini K10, and with the purchase of a K12 I've done some minor re-carving of the interior to make room for the cocking lever and recoil absorber pad and am using it on that pistol. Here's a rotating version of that grip so you can get an idea. If seeing this you think something like 'wow, that'd be way too big for my hand' then perhaps the Baikal stock grip will be a good place to start carving. I just don't like putty and since I carve for a living making a well fitted grip isn't too difficult.
http://www.luthier.ca/other/forum/maple_grip.gif

[Mark D]

All the pistols that you mention,will at some point require the seals to be replaced. If they are done with the modern synthetic materials, they will last a life time of the average club shooter. The FWB 100 is harder to cock than the later 103. The 103 is also expensive and hard to find. The Mod 65 and 80 and the later Mod 90 are all still capable (in the right hands) of winning club matches. If your not adverse to CO2, there are a number of 10m match pistols that will do the job your looking for and don't require the cocking effort of the SSP or springer designs

[Gerard]

For the most part true regarding modern synthetic seals, especially with the FWB springer models. But the seal in the IZH-46m can only be replaced with another hard rubber seal from Baikal, it seems there are no after-market alternatives. In my experience these last about 1 year of regular use, ie; a thousand or two thousand pellets per month. It could easily be that the seal loses its elasticity even without use, as what I've seen is the seal outside diameter actually shrinking, the gap between core and outer flange shrinking from about 1.5mm to 0.5mm over about a year. The result is dropping of pressure and resulting dropping of velocity. Again in my experience this has ranged from about 460fps with a new seal to about 420fps with a worn-out seal. This is with regular appropriate oiling, using a silicone oil about one to two drops per tin of pellets fired as directed by the manufacturer. Unfortunately these seals are expensive, usually about $20 to $25 per 'kit' which includes the two small breech rings as well. There is a Russian language site selling just the main seal (the smaller seals don't wear out for a lot longer, lasting at least 2 years each with a dab of oil now and then, and can also be made using conical tap washers trimmed correctly to fit) for about $7 each plus shipping but I am reluctant to send my credit card information to a Russian website. The pistol comes with one seal in place plus one spare. Mine were both semi-useless within slightly less than 2 years combined.

[Chavez]

Thank you Gerard,

I've got a friend who goes to Russia a couple times a year so sourcing the seals should be reasonably easy.

Do PCP guns have less maintenance requirements than springers?

[Benelli B76]

I have the following target models and have listed them in my preference for shooting.Also prices paid secondhand:

Feinwerkbau Model 2 Bulk fill C02 300
Baikal IZH-46M SSP 250
Drulov DU10 CO2 Cartridge 100
Original 6M Giss spring system 75
Feinwerkbau 65 Spring sledge 250
Rohm Twinmaster PCP 200
Thinking of selling the FWB 65.
Baz

[hwtyger]

There's only 1 GOOD way to choose a targetpistol; try/feel and choose.
A matchweapon must fit you, weight and balancewise etc
I can tell you I dont like the FWB65 at all, balance and weightwise, but maybe its perfect for you

If you can afford it, ánd it suit you, I'd buy as recent as possible. That is, I prefer ssp above recoilspring for the way it shoots

[little.O]

Hello,
All the pistols mentioned are fine except giss system.These are getting old now now and this mechanically complex system is prone to wear and breaking gear parts.The FWB model 80 is a newer version of the 65 and has a nicer trigger action.I use one myself and would not sell or swap.There's no filling up,no leaking seals or running out of anything (except pellets!);you just take it out and shoot it. In the right hands it's as accurate as anything else and they're still affordable.
ATB Owen

[zebedee123]

You may even consider the Air Arms Project 10m pistol

[ikarma70]

I have an fwb80 and i get on with it really well. I would never part with it as its the best and most accurate spring pistol i have ever owned.

As said if co2 is ok with you then might i suggest a tau 7 or a brno aeron.

Before you spend money, try every target pistol you can and let the pistol do the chosing by how well you shoot with it.

However if you chose wrong, you can usually sell a quality target pistol on with no loss to your pocket.

Good luck with your search!

[Nikkormat]

Regarding the FWB65, I will say I am absolutely devoted to it, I am sure it is more accurate than 99% of shooters, but unlike some pistols it will punish poor technique. It seems that with mine I can "feel" the shot; if I do my bit, I can feel that it's going to hit the centre, but if I don't do my bit then it's not just a miss but a big miss. I wouldn't swap mine for anything though.

If you don't mind CO2, look at the TAU7.

Matt

[Gerard]

Do PCP guns have less maintenance requirements than springers?

Sorry, I forgot to respond to this question earlier. In my limited experience I'd say the need for maintenance is ordered thus:

Springers - need lubrication quite frequently, though this varies with the model. With my Webleys I find they seize up after a few hundred shots if I don't put in a few drops of oil, and shooting behaviour changes depending on the stage between oilings with cocking becoming notably sticky-feeling to let me know it's time to lube.

Single Stroke Pneumatics - A drop or two of oil on the main seal and a smear of oil on the breech seal(s) about every tin of pellets, nothing else needed except for occasional main and breech seal replacement.

PCP - minimal maintenance; a small part of a drop of thin synthetic oil on the breech seal every tin or so and a smear of O-ring grease on the cylinder adapter every 10 cylinder fills or so should be plenty.

These opinions formed while shooting a Baikal 46m SSP, three Webley pistols ranging from 60 to 15 years old, and two PCPs, a Pardini K10 and a K12. The K12 is virtually maintenance free it seems, as the breech seal is very simple and accessible for cleaning of lead dust and the trigger is 'dry' meaning no oil there, ever.