Can I go shorter??

[bullbarrel]

nope otherwise factory ammo wouldn't hit squat! get your powder charge sorted out and then if you must play with the length to get the minimum group dispersion, too many people spend too much time fretting about the jump to the lands before getting the rifle shooting well.

I have to say I've found the complete opposite. COL has made all the difference, powder change just makes the group go in different places (within reason). Sure if you have the wrong COL then powder changes might result in a nice group, but not consistently.

Just my 2p

And if its raining then this and part 2 is worth watching. But skip the bits about concentricity and come back when you have 1/2 moa groups.

[phil384]

I started playing the video and noticed the first one is 2 hours long, defo a rainy day video!

Anyone want to buy some N150 powder. It's OK for .308

[bullbarrel]

You've still not said the group size with factory??

[phil384]

You've still not said the group size with factory??

Sorry, PPU is rubbish, again about 3" groups. RWS just over an inch.

[kennyc]

Sorry, PPU is rubbish, again about 3" groups. RWS just over an inch.

sorry factory PPU? where was this mentioned? your original post

I'm happy the powder is consistent and the length has been measured correctly.

And at 100yds I'm getting 3" groups which clearly isn't good enough. There's not even a trend towards tighter groups as the COAL decreases.

So.....shall I keep going shorter or am I just a crap shot? The factory ammo is quite a bit shorter than my reloaded stuff but I know it has to be.

Any ideas?

I am reading this as its your reloads that are giving a 3MOA group, not factory, are the RWS factory loads using the same Amax bullet? if so why not load to the same COAL as them and try that out? that will eliminate/implicate your reloading technique as the culprit and hopefully give you a baseline from which to work out your best CAOL

[phil384]

sorry factory PPU? where was this mentioned? your original post

I'm happy the powder is consistent and the length has been measured correctly.

And at 100yds I'm getting 3" groups which clearly isn't good enough. There's not even a trend towards tighter groups as the COAL decreases.

So.....shall I keep going shorter or am I just a crap shot? The factory ammo is quite a bit shorter than my reloaded stuff but I know it has to be.

Any ideas?

I am reading this as its your reloads that are giving a 3MOA group, not factory, are the RWS factory loads using the same Amax bullet? if so why not load to the same COAL as them and try that out? that will eliminate/implicate your reloading technique as the culprit and hopefully give you a baseline from which to work out your best CAOL

Yes, factory PPU is giving me 3" groups as are my first few batches of reloads. Factory RWS ( I just happen to have also bought RWS Brass) rounds are much better. I see what you mean, If the factory RWS is getting me close to where I want to be then use that COL as a guide.

[kennyc]

Yes, factory PPU is giving me 3" groups as are my first few batches of reloads. Factory RWS ( I just happen to have also bought RWS Brass) rounds are much better. I see what you mean, If the factory RWS is getting me close to where I want to be then use that COL as a guide.

exactly and then you can try moving the bullet towards the lands to see if that tightens your groups

[pjinoz]

Yes, factory PPU is giving me 3" groups as are my first few batches of reloads. Factory RWS ( I just happen to have also bought RWS Brass) rounds are much better. I see what you mean, If the factory RWS is getting me close to where I want to be then use that COL as a guide.

Here is my 2 p or cents: You say that you can get 1 inch groups with RWS but not with your hand loads or PPU. This tells me that your barrel should be able to shoot accurately (RWS) but your hand load with good bullets is poor. Firstly small changes to COL might make some change to accuracy but they are not going to be great. eg. I built a 378 Weatherby Mag. but designed the reamer to "improve" it slightly reducing case taper and blowing out the venturi shoulder. But, I incorporated HALF AN INCH of freebore (Early Weatherby's had free bores up to 3/4 inch; don't know about now) and this monster shot sub inch groups with 270 grain Hornady's @ 3206 f/s (shot to shot with this load was very good but poor with another using a different primer)-but it hurt off the bench! Most if not all my accuracy problems have been related to poor bullets (your Hornady should be ok) or sub standard ignition (primer) or perhaps most likely erratic powder burn which may be related to unsuitable powder (too fast/slow). However, even if you use a fast or slow powder providing that the load burns uniformly shot to shot you still should be able to get reasonable accuracy. Therefore it is possible that your handloads are erratic in shot to shot. Have you put your reloads across the chrono? How hot are your reloads? Remember that the load data as published is pertinent to their gun and possibly not yours. If you do not know how to work up loads then perhaps reading the sticky "A good read for reloaders" would be useful. Finally, I suggest that investing in a chronograph will save you wasted ammo and even "make you cry" when you see the results. I bought my first chronograph in 1970 and could not live without one!
Cheers

[kennyc]

I started playing the video and noticed the first one is 2 hours long, defo a rainy day video!

Anyone want to buy some N150 powder. It's OK for .308

Viht list N150 for the .243 so its unlikely to be a powder problem as long as you are using their data.

[kennyc]

I have to say I've found the complete opposite. COL has made all the difference, powder change just makes the group go in different places (within reason). Sure if you have the wrong COL then powder changes might result in a nice group, but not consistently.

Just my 2p

And if its raining then this and part 2 is worth watching. But skip the bits about concentricity and come back when you have 1/2 moa groups.

my main point Andy was he was trying to run before he walked with measuring the COAL and trying to load with a short jump, if he starts at the book length and works up an accurate charge he can fine tune the accuracy by adjusting the length.
Factory ammo isn't loaded to a suitable length for a given rifle, it is loaded to an average length, yet many people happily shoot factory ammo accurately for the whole of their career,
most people are trying to get the maximum speed out of their ammo so are unlikely to settle for a middle of the road load, so why not start by working out the powder charge that gives you the best velocity and then work out the fine detail of the COAL once you have that ?