webley versus bsa?

[red bob]

just curious as to mems opinion on the comparison between the airsporter against the wbley mk3,its immaterial to me as i love both and have 2 exmpls
of the airsporter and now a mk3 which is in serious need of tlc.but when my mates get together for a few bevies i always bring this old chestnut up as i have 2 mates in particuler who bite when one or tother makes a critical comment on the others pride and joy .one says "o yes the build quality of th web is far superior, built to last and chunky looks to boot"
then the other comes back with"o your joking the airsporter has classic lines and shoots better and a wide choice of versions exported wourld wide and so on,i slink back into the shadows and make the odd comment if one looks to be gaining an advantage.if pushed i have a slight inclination towards the bsa as it looks by far the most attractive of these old designs and still looks the part ,even mrs red bob came out with an admireing comment when she noticed the airsporter sitting on the rack.this one could run and run i know, just out of interest my newly aquired web mk3 is num46361 any ideas age wise bob.

[Lakey]

No contest BSA everytime. And yes I know I am bias, but in my opinion if you want an argument to end this particular debate you only have to go back to 1905.
After george Lincoln Jeffries invented the concept of an underlever air rifle using a rotary tap at the breech, BSA started the first commercial factory production of that first BSA air-rifle. Webleys have been playing catch up ever since

BSA's first air rifle 1905

Webleys first air rifle 1926


I rest my case


Lakey (BSA enthusiast till I die)

[red bob]

good point cant wait till we get together again i will drop these into the debate at the appropriate moment and stand well back he he .

[Sam Vimes]

I tend to Favour the Airsporters looks over the MKIII. I don't like working on the older MK of Airsporters with that bloody awful conical head. A similarly aged MKIII is so much easier. The wood work on MKIIIs, whilst not as shapely, always seems to be of better quality and better figured than any comparable Airsporter. The quality of the blueing on the Webleys also seems a cut above BSAs best efforts too.

[barryeye]

When I had the choice over 40 years ago I chose the Webley over the B.S.A. I read all the pamphlets and advertisements and performance wise on paper there appeared to be no difference. No doubt at all that the B.S.A. was more pleasing on the eye but as has been said already the Webley had a quality fit and finish that the B.S.A. lacked. Before I bought I borrowed a MKIII to take on a hunting holiday. I loved it. Ordered my own as soon as I got back. Still have it. At the end of the day as a practical shooter (hunter) performance was more important then looks. The MKIII has served me well.
However 40 years on I am not sure that I made the right choice. The debate will continue until the last baby boomer bites the dust.
There must be collectors on this forum that own both in a similar condition and vintage. Power wise I think we can assume that they are equal as both claimed a M.V. of 550fps.in.22. It would be interesting if those who own both could conduct an accuracy test and give us an unbiased opinion as to the more accurate of the two. I’m not taking bets one way or another.

[gedfinn 2]

Over the years, had many of both guns, The Aisporter has the looks, but not the quality !
Like Sam Vines said, The blueing & fit are far superior on the Webley, & it feels " Put together " As regards power I couldn,t split them, Its interesting that I have NO Airsporter,s But 3 Webley Mk111,s ? ( One complete for spares if enough interest ) The older models were much better than the newer ones, & how about that " Fabricated stock " on the Airsporter ! Ha ha, never know !

[pennineway.fswo]

I wondered how long it would be before this query/topic came up and this thread may go on for a long time.

I have to agree that the early Airsporters beat the Webley Mk 111's for styling, and that the flip up tap is a very good safety feature. But I also agree with the fact that generally, the build quality, finish/bluing and woodwork are a step up on the Webley
I am fortunate to have acquired a number of both Mk111's and Airsporters over the years(my latest purchase being a .177 Webley Mk 111 -1959 vintage)
I do bench test them at 20 yards and at 50 yards on our club ranges occasionally

If we exclude my RB2, the most accurate at 20 yards seems to be the Webley .177 but it is only just ahead of the Airsporter Mk 1 in 177 (10 shot groups rested) - The Webley had a Parker Hale fitted but the Airsporter Mk 1 was of course open sights, so this was not really a fair test or very scientific.
All the .22's were scoped.
CTC groups were of the order of 15mm for the .177 Webley and 18mm for the BSA Mk 1 .177.
Group sizes for the various .22's were about 20mm

At 50 yards I have only checked out the .22 rifles.
Best groups that I have shot 'bench rested' were from a Airsporter Mk 11 (using 5.6 Wasps) closely followed by the Webley Mk111. What has been surprising, was to find that my .22 Airsporter 'S' models did not do so well and could not match the much older rifles.Group sizes were of the order of 70-80 mm

I also tested a .177 pre-war tap loader BSA Club Standard model. Even with open sights this gun accuracy at 50 yards was superb using JSB manufactured pellets. It is also more powerful than the .177 Airsporter and .177 Webley Mk 111

Perhaps one day, one of us will get round to organizing a long range target shooting day/competition with these old springers. We could have various classes of pre-war, post-war,bench-rest, standing, sitting open/metal sights and any sights.If there was enough interest we could run it at my Small Bore Club where we have quite a number of ranges up to 100 yards in Groby quarries not far from jnc.22 of M1. It would also be an opportunity to bring and buy guns and spares etc.maybe invite a few dealers in the good old stuff.
A BBQ would go down well and we have good facilities for parking/toilets/etc
This is something to think about for the future as there certainly is a lot of interest in these old guns

John

[Lakey]

I wondered how long it would be before this query/topic came up and this thread may go on for a long time.

I have to agree that the early Airsporters beat the Webley Mk 111's for styling, and that the flip up tap is a very good safety feature. But I also agree with the fact that generally, the build quality, finish/bluing and woodwork are a step up on the Webley
I am fortunate to have acquired a number of both Mk111's and Airsporters over the years(my latest purchase being a .177 Webley Mk 111 -1959 vintage)
I do bench test them at 20 yards and at 50 yards on our club ranges occasionally

If we exclude my RB2, the most accurate at 20 yards seems to be the Webley .177 but it is only just ahead of the Airsporter Mk 1 in 177 (10 shot groups rested) - The Webley had a Parker Hale fitted but the Airsporter Mk 1 was of course open sights, so this was not really a fair test or very scientific.
All the .22's were scoped.
CTC groups were of the order of 15mm for the .177 Webley and 18mm for the BSA Mk 1 .177.
Group sizes for the various .22's were about 20mm

At 50 yards I have only checked out the .22 rifles.
Best groups that I have shot 'bench rested' were from a Airsporter Mk 11 (using 5.6 Wasps) closely followed by the Webley Mk111. What has been surprising, was to find that my .22 Airsporter 'S' models did not do so well and could not match the much older rifles.Group sizes were of the order of 70-80 mm

I also tested a .177 pre-war tap loader BSA Club Standard model. Even with open sights this gun accuracy at 50 yards was superb using JSB manufactured pellets. It is also more powerful than the .177 Airsporter and .177 Webley Mk 111

Perhaps one day, one of us will get round to organizing a long range target shooting day/competition with these old springers. We could have various classes of pre-war, post-war,bench-rest, standing, sitting open/metal sights and any sights.If there was enough interest we could run it at my Small Bore Club where we have quite a number of ranges up to 100 yards in Groby quarries not far from jnc.22 of M1. It would also be an opportunity to bring and buy guns and spares etc.maybe invite a few dealers in the good old stuff.
A BBQ would go down well and we have good facilities for parking/toilets/etc
This is something to think about for the future as there certainly is a lot of interest in these old guns

John

What a great Idea. I would be up for that and I have to agree about your point with the pre-war underlevers.They were the most accurate of the lot

[tjg]

That is a superb Idea,often wondered about an ft course with open sights(closer with NO reducers) Groby is a good venue,central ,close to the Mway,and easy to find,I am sure you would get a good response if you organised it
TIM

[Sam Vimes]

That is a superb Idea,often wondered about an ft course with open sights(closer with NO reducers) Groby is a good venue,central ,close to the Mway,and easy to find,I am sure you would get a good response if you organised it
TIM

Tim,
I did exactly that during the last NEFTA winter league. I went round with the .177 RB2 Airsporter that is now in the safe custody of Gareth W-B. On a day where the vast majority were struggling to break 20 ex 30, (IIRC top score was no more than 25) I put in an 8ex30 with the airsporter (no scope fitted) after I'd put in 19/20 with my full blown FT rig. It was damned good fun doing it too!

[Garvin]

I've had a few of both Mk3 and Airsporter and I have to agree the Webley fit and finish trumps the BSA but the BSA is much better looking. I also prefer the Mk3's trigger. The solution is to get a Falke 80 or 90 - they are even better made than the Mk3 but have a similar look to the Airsporter.

[tjg]

Tim,
I did exactly that during the last NEFTA winter league. I went round with the .177 RB2 Airsporter that is now in the safe custody of Gareth W-B. On a day where the vast majority were struggling to break 20 ex 30, (IIRC top score was no more than 25) I put in an 8ex30 with the airsporter (no scope fitted) after I'd put in 19/20 with my full blown FT rig. It was damned good fun doing it too!

Hi,if i am around when organised i would be more than happy to help put an easy FT course together,if you draw with someone you dont know its a relaxed way to meet folk,A dump shoot may be a better IDEA,But this is John's baby,he knows whats best,so I am not trying to muscle in,i would be happy to look at what people were shootin,and put a few faces to names
TIM

[tjg]

You could even make it a webley verses BSA day,people shootin thier prefered ,and judging the guns on thier overall performance throughout the day,its only a crack..
TIM

[Sam Vimes]

You could even make it a webley verses BSA day,people shootin thier prefered ,and judging the guns on thier overall performance throughout the day,its only a crack..
TIM

I wouldn't restrict it to just BSA and Webley. Open it out to two classes. Scoped and iron sights, maximises participation. Wouldn't want the Germanophiles to feel all left out.

[tjg]

I wouldn't restrict it to just BSA and Webley. Open it out to two classes. Scoped and iron sights, maximises participation. Wouldn't want the Germanophiles to feel all left out.

You are spot on about the Germanophiles,whatever they are,but not sure about scopes,(I can remember what they are)
TIM