Air Logic Genesis (please look in)

[DCL_dave]

Hi Dave, spoke to my dad about it and he says" Back in about 1988 my dad was offered the rest of all the stock of air logic by a Mr Picker**g" it included unfinished Genesis air rifles and lots of spares and other stuff! Richard Spencer was going to build 200 but never done more than 175?
Dad recons yours could be one built up from the spare parts? dont take this as definate! Richard Spencer may have just fogot to stamp it???
Give him a ring! i think he runs Target technics accrington! he will be able to restore it to its former glory and may be able to shed some light on it? very nice bloke too!
P.S most were the super deluxe made

hi lee,

cheers for the info, and yeah i suppose it's possible that it could be a composite gun?...technically though, possibly being 1 of potentially only 25 max would make it even rarer than a run-of-the-mill genesis, wouldn't it?

the history of the gun as i know it:

i bought the gun second hand from sportarm in dorchester in the early 90's for £225!...seem to remember kevin (the proprietor) saying that it was 1 of 2 that he had sold through his shop when they were new back in the 80's, 1 that he owned himself, and this one that he ordered for someone else, it found it's way back to his shop and then on to me, i then sold it to my brother about 6 or 7 years ago and have now just bought it back off him (btw, the £300 i paid him for it is the same price that i sold it to him for originally, but he chucked in the simmons 1.5-5x20 scope+mounts for me too, he's a good chap is my brother ). i will phone kevin, and the chap who made it later on today because i'm intrigued now! i think my brother has phoned mr spencer before but i'm not sure, i'll ask him at a more sociable hour though.

thanks again,
dave

Edit: possibly difficult to tell from my photos but is it in any way different from your gun?

[I. J.]

very nice bloke too!

I have to agree with you on that one. Richard is a gentleman.

ATB
Ian

[LeeEv2]

possibly difficult to tell from my photos but is it in any way different from your gun?
No Dave! looks just like my old one! the grain in the wood i mean! would love to know where it is now! no:136 anyone?????
The one i have now was bought from Manchester airguns back in Dec 1987 by my Dad, he then gave it to me as my 30th birthday pressie the one i had i got second hand in about 1988 and stupidly sold it to a chap from Oldham&DAC in springhead at the time( now choreley) I think now his name was possibly Graham not Dave! Where is it now??? would love to buy it back!
Let me know how you got on with Richard Spencer!

[LeeEv2]

Hi Dave, how did you get on?

[DCL_dave]

Hi Dave, how did you get on?

hi lee,

unfortunately i didn't get the chance to phone mr spencer yesterday (missus had me out shopping...pah!) by the time i realised it was too late (did phone but got the answer machine) so i'll try again tomorrow, but i asked my brother and he says that when he phoned mr spencer and asked about it, he (mr spencer) seemed to think it was odd that it didn't have a serial number and said that if he needed work doing on it it wouldn't be a problem, my brother said he thought that he (mr spencer) would have liked to have had it returned to have a look at it....so i do plan to return it to him so that he can give it a service and to maybe see if he can verify if it's an original that he actually produced (but forgot to stamp) or a bitza knocked up after the event (it's still worth the £300 to me even if it is a composite because i am part of its history ) i will post back to let you know the outcome. btw, just out of interest, i did talk to kevin (from sportarm) he thinks his geny was serial no 29 or 97, he wasn't sure which but seemed fairly sure it was one of them two...he didn't know what the serial number on mine should have been though, but seemed sure that both genys _were_ ordered from mr spencer...so the plot thickens

edit: it's entirely possible that this genesis isn't the second one sold through sportarm in the 80's, i just assumed that it is because of their rarity and the locality, quite a coincidence if it's not though.

edit: oh yeah, i took the gun to the local club early this morning to see how it performs, seemed a bit down on power, i didn't get the chance to put it over a chrono but considering it was blowing a hooly, and i didn't adjust the sights at all, it still managed to knock down a few targets so i'm going to have some fun with it for a couple of weeks before i send it off for that much needed service.

[LeeEv2]

Cheers for the reply Dave, let me know how you get on? mine will be going to him soon too for a service! its on its original seals so not bad! still shoots very well but if left cocked for a couple of hours it loses some oommph!
Going to try and trace my own original one!
No:136 ANYONE???

[two screws]

THIS and THIS may be of use.

HTH
Ian

Ian
remember the one I had at a shoot in a dry sand quarry in Macclesfield I recall, just a heads up lads, oil on an exposed barell/ breach and dry sand on a windy day just does not mix.

Anyway that was my excuse for missing most of the targets that day.

If my memory serves me right I swapped it at a local gun shop for a Daystate Midas, yes perhaps another mistake, but we were all a lot younger then.

[Pagoda113]

I looked in at Target Technics today after a month or three interval. Richard was in good form and the Genesis topic (inevitably) came up. Two points that I had not appreciated came up. Firstly, the piston is likely to self destruct if the user attempts to push the power to unreasonable levels, so stick to the legal limit (as all responsible users do). Secondly, only oil the piston rings sparingly, (one ring is partly exposed when the cocking lever is fully extended) because excess oiling can lead to oil getting in front of the piston with unfortunate effects thereon. I mention these points because the instructions tend to suggest that liberal oiling was OK.

[DCL_dave]

hi all,

hi lee,
just a quick update, i phoned richard spencer this afternoon, what i nice chap! asked him about my gun and the missing serial number and he seemed fairly sure that it was more likely to be a prototype than anything else! (well i never! ) he also said that a lot of the original run of 175 guns he made went to america and canada...and he gave me a possible reason for the drop in power in that the o-ring seal just inside the lip of the breech may need replacing, i'll certainly change it to see if it makes a difference.

hi two screws,
no offence meant but i should think that most airguns would struggle under the conditions you describe, certainly those guns with sliding breeches like the hw77-97 and tx's, bsa rotary breeches too...but i do take your point that the genesis does have a big old oily breech area that would foul and jam up easily under those conditions, do you regard it as something of a design fault?

hi pagoda113,
thanks for the tips, duly noted and taken on board. incidentally, i don't have the original manual, my gun never came with one, any chance of a scan, please? no worries if not, or if you can't/don't have a scanner or whatever, it would just be nice to have a look at it is all

cheers,
dave

[Pagoda113]

PM to you Dave

[Pagoda113]

Emails now with you hopefully.

[DCL_dave]

Emails now with you hopefully.

yes, all here. many thanks mate, much appreciated, you're a star

[LeeEv2]

Well wow Dave a prototype?? get it re-blued and stock sorted and keep hold of it! another 10 years time could be worth a packet? i thought there was only one?(Richards) will be down your way on one of the grand prix FTshoots this year! if you come i will bring mine with me!
Lee

[DCL_dave]

lee, i have thought about it and i'm not sure about re-blueing the action and re-finishing the stock now?...i don't think it would de-value it all, but would it gain in value the cost of the refurbishment? afterall it is in a good honest condition atm, talking of which, in your opinion (and that of you other chaps, please) does being a prototype increase it's value any? i suppose the old adage applies in that it's only worth what it's worth to the person willing to pay...but i would have thought that being a prototype it is more valuable from a collectors viewpoint? but i don't know for sure, never had a prototype before!

another thing...having had a good read of the manual and a sales advert that pagoda113 kindly sent to me, i have a few more questions the manual mentions that the gun was available in standard or carbine form but doesn't mention the length of either, the advert only mentions the length of the carbine at 45 inches long with a barrel length of 18 inches, well my gun is 46-1/2 inches long from butt to muzzle with a barrel length of 18-1/4 inches, is this more proof of it being a prototype maybe? or was there really so little difference in length between standard and carbine versions?

oh yeah, i was talking to terry on sunday morning and he mentioned that a gp was being held at the ground later in the year so i'll be there mate, would love to see that 177 genesis of yours too so please do bring it along

[I. J.]

talking of which, in your opinion (and that of you other chaps, please) does being a prototype increase it's value any?

Speaking personally I would say yes. I have seen (and purchased) rifles from the Webley auction. They may only vary in from the production model in some cases by having reduced or no engraving on them but this must warrant closer inspection and therefore the added curiosity value.

ATB
Ian