1851 colt navy conversion

[Jim McArthur]

Looks to be a groove through the breech which could mean that it's a breech loader.
Also, no nipples so it might not be a muzzle loader.

Given that your grandfather gave it to you it's unlikely to be a nitro conversion from a BP M/L.

Have a look for proof marks, that should tell you if it's a replica or not.

Hmmm....it's not likely to be a modern day nitro conversion from a BP muzzleloader: but remember that back in the 1870's, after Colt introduced its cartridge 1873 Peacemaker / Single Action Army, many percussion revolver owners had their pieces converted to fire these newfangled, self-contained cartridges.

How a 130 year old cartridge pistol fits in the UK's gun law scheme, I'm not sure. Is it treated like a modern cartridge pistol, because of its ignition system? Or is it accorded antique status, because of its age?

Anyone know?

Jim

[j.gra1994]

Best thing is to research the law - check with organizations like your NRA - and decide in advance what you want to do with it, depending on what it is and the applicable law.

If it's an original percussion, a non-firing replica, a conventional air pistol, a deactivated cartridge conversion, or a deactivated modern percussion, you can own it without any legal hassle.

If it's a firing condition cartridge conversion, you can get it deactivated but you can't get a fAC for it.

If it's a firing condition modern percussion, you can get it deactivated. Or get it on FAC: but you'll need to join a pistol club, and shoot it there regularly.

A Brocock TAC? I know that when they were banned, it was a legal compromise: present owners could keep them but could never transfer them to anyone else. Therefore, I don't think you could legally keep it if it's a firing condition TAC. But I would guess that you could, if you get it deactivated.

In any case, it's a beautiful pistol, has a family history to it, and obviously means something to you: so I hope that you will find a way to legally keep it.


Jim

That really was great advice Jim thanks! All of the advice you guys have given me is great! I didnt intend on shooting the pistol i just wanted to figure out what it was, as i said the muzzle seems to be 22 cal so i think it is the brocock BAC version but i think they have been banned because they can fire 22 cartridges so i think my best bet is to get it deactivated as soon as possible and keep it rather than get it destroyed. Would i be right in thinking that an airgun only shop couldnt do this for me?
Cheers guys
-Josh

[steve medlock]

Josh,

Someone's already said this but you do need to take it to an RFD without delay. If it needs deactivating you can leave it with the RFD whilst you decide what to do.

Steve.

[Jim McArthur]

That really was great advice Jim thanks! All of the advice you guys have given me is great! I didnt intend on shooting the pistol i just wanted to figure out what it was, as i said the muzzle seems to be 22 cal so i think it is the brocock BAC version but i think they have been banned because they can fire 22 cartridges so i think my best bet is to get it deactivated as soon as possible and keep it rather than get it destroyed. Would i be right in thinking that an airgun only shop couldnt do this for me?
Cheers guys
-Josh

You're very welcome, Josh! I hope you are able to keep this beautiful family heirloom.

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about the nuts and bolts of how and where you can get a pistol deactivated: but I'm sure lots of mates here know.

Jim

[lilguy43uk]

Hmmm....it's not likely to be a modern day nitro conversion from a BP muzzleloader: but remember that back in the 1870's, after Colt introduced its cartridge 1873 Peacemaker / Single Action Army, many percussion revolver owners had their pieces converted to fire these newfangled, self-contained cartridges.

How a 130 year old cartridge pistol fits in the UK's gun law scheme, I'm not sure. Is it treated like a modern cartridge pistol, because of its ignition system? Or is it accorded antique status, because of its age?

Anyone know?

Jim

Here is the stupidity of UK firearms law. Say I have two identical ML pistols, one a genuine antique and the other a replica. I don't need a licence or any sort of security to hold the genuine article. I can hang it on my front door as a knocker if I need to.
But, if I was to fire one shot from it, then it has to be licensed and secured.

The replica, however, has to be licensed and locked away securely at all times.

The law is an ass.

[Jim McArthur]

Here is the stupidity of UK firearms law. Say I have two identical ML pistols, one a genuine antique and the other a replica. I don't need a licence or any sort of security to hold the genuine article. I can hang it on my front door as a knocker if I need to.
But, if I was to fire one shot from it, then it has to be licensed and secured.

The replica, however, has to be licensed and locked away securely at all times.

The law is an ass.

Also: the original that you can buy and own without a license, that later does require a license and a gun cabinet if you decide you want to shoot, then DOESN'T require a license or cabinet, if you decide later that you DON'T want to shoot it!

How an inanimate object goes from not being / being / not being a likely subject for criminal misuse, based on whether its owner doesn't intend / does intend / doesn't intend to fire it occasionally at the local pistol range, is something that escapes me completely.

Jim

[loach369]

Josh,

Someone's already said this but you do need to take it to an RFD without delay. If it needs deactivating you can leave it with the RFD whilst you decide what to do.

Steve.

You can't simply lodge this with any old RFD. It has to be lodged with an RFD who has specific Authority for Section 5 Prohibited Weapons covering Self Contained Gas Cartridge weapons. I can think of two in the whole of England who have authority for SCGC guns.

The penalties if caught with this weapon IF it is a Brocock SCGC are severe. It is a five year mandatory jail sentence. No ifs, buts or plea bargaining.

[lew07]

Looks like it may be an Italian made Pirreta blank firing pistol.That may be why it was allowed into the U,K at the time as well.

[animal17]

Looks suspiciously like a Brocock tac to me
Did your grandad have any shells with it
If so its a section 5 firearm

[majex45]

It is an example of the conversion of a muzzle loader pistol to cartridge firing, probably using the Richards-Mason system.
It does not look worn enough to be original.
If it is an original it MAY be OK, depending on the calibre it was converted to, there is a list of obsolete calibres on the Home Office website.
If it is a modern made (they are making these as conversions without the intervening stage) it MAY be OK provided it has been made as a blank firer.
If it is modern and designed to fire ANY calibre it is S5 and you need to get it deacted ASAP.
If it is a modern replica that cannot fire (or be made to fire) is is OK to possess but you cannot sell it as it is post 1870 and comes under the VCR Act. (I believe).

[Jim McArthur]

Lots of ideas as to what it might be.

Jim

[loiner1965]

Lots of ideas as to what it might be.

Jim

looks like its this.....
http://www.ruclip.com/video/ViQY18iq...ir-pistol.html
oooops.....maybe this as the tac pistol doesnt have the black ring in front of the cylinders like this does...http://www.ruclip.com/video/mkcS18Oj...onversion.html
only thing that lets the conversion down is the barrel bore is only .22

[mjohno]

To answer Jim's question first if a gun is designed to fire center-fire cartridges then the age is irrelevant when it comes to licensing it all depends on what its chambered for that decides if it has to be held on a certificate or not.
If the Colt turns out to be a TAC pistol as a previous poster has said very few sec5 dealers can take them, deactivation costs will be around a £100 plus the carridge.
Lastly please remember that the five years for these things is mandatory and as you now have a good idea as to the legal status from the answers here I would advise moving it on very quickly.
And very lastly without wishing to black cat loach I can think of two for sure and one very possible (and one that is waiting for them to be added) sec5 dealers that can take them. Making a total of three/four

[acmsarh]

Looking at the shape of the nose of the firing pin it may be rimfire not centrefire . If it is rimfire it certainly a blank firer check and see where the firing pin protrusion is , the centre or the edge of the chamber.l

[Jim McArthur]

To answer Jim's question first if a gun is designed to fire center-fire cartridges then the age is irrelevant when it comes to licensing it all depends on what its chambered for that decides if it has to be held on a certificate or not.

How does the rule go to determine whether the caliber it's chambered for is obsolete or not?

Jim