RIKA, SCATT, Anyone used these?

[McTrucky]

Has anyone used electronic systems for pistol training? I'm interested in getting a system as I like the idea of knowing for sure what would happen, for example, if I released the shot earlier.

Seems a lot of money though if its a 'play with once or twice and forget about it toy'...

Also how do they connect to the pistol - does a laser fit into the barrel? Do you need to fit a microswitch to the trigger?

Cheers
McT

[Cones]

Hi,

They can be an excellent training aid.

I have a newer (USB) Scatt trainer but they are all similar and give roughly the same information.

The Scatt pistol sensor uses IR sensor (infrared) to detect the IR LED's on the target frame. It has a microphone that picks up the click of the dry fire trigger release. USB lead to the pistol sensor and USB to the target frame. Range of distance from 6-15m with the standard system. 10m Pistol and Rifle.

The information on your target approach, hold and release cannot really be seen any other way. You can see if you snatch the trigger, look at your time between shots. Hold area and follow through.

Please be aware that these are not scoring machines. You can shoot a match on them but the ballistics side is different to the real target. So the score will not be exactly the same.


I did a course at Holwell RC on the use of the systems and it was worth every penny. Without some training the results can be difficult to analyse.

HTH

Mark

[The Doctor]

Hi McT

Right, forget the rika, the scatt is the better of the two for a number of reasons.

The scatt uses an optical sensor much like a laser that sits underneath the cylinder of the pistol attached via a band - the sensor also picks up acoustic signals (from the trigger) so that it 'knows' when a shot has been released. The sensor then connects back to the computer via usb. A separate cable runs to the target holder which is basically a hollow plastic square that hold the target - you can live fire, but I would only recommend this if you know you get 100 of your hits in the black ......the sensors are expensive to replace if shot! You don't need a trigger sensor.

The scatt is useful if you are a 550 shooter or above as it picks out things like hold point, raise and time on target etc. I had one for a while but the West Midlands Squad has three so when I train I use that one.

Hope this helps

Lee

[Cones]

This explains a bit about them.

http://www.pilkguns.com/hometrainerpart1.shtml

It was explained that many of the top shooters use the electronic training aids a LOT (60% or more) of the time during training. Even combining the trainer with live fire to give total feedback.

HTH

Mark

[20series]

Scatt is probably the better of the systems unless you go up to a Noptel but they're lots of money.

You can add a live fire frame gadget to Scatt (£400) that you can put a target in the middle of and get full feed back for things like recoil and follow through.

Alan

[another_dom]

I use Scatt regularly, but have not used the Rika home trainer.

They're expensive and require knowledge to analyse the information provided, but are a very powerful tool.

You can add a trigger sensor if you want to analyse how you address the trigger, your take up and follow through.

Dom.

[Cones]

Scatt is probably the better of the systems unless you go up to a Noptel but they're lots of money.

You can add a live fire frame gadget to Scatt (£400) that you can put a target in the middle of and get full feed back for things like recoil and follow through.

Alan

Yes, you can use the supplied frame for 10m air live fire. But the above for greater ranges.

http://www.scatt.com/scatt_usb.htm

Be aware that the Scatt system does not work outside or in direct sunlight or with heat sources blowing between the shooter and target.

HTH

Mark

[SteveR]

I have a SCATT too, as per everyones comments, its a great training and analysis tool.

One thing to note is that you can't use it outside (not sure about the other electronic trainers ?).

The most expensive part to replace should you damage it, is the optical sensor attached to your gun.

Steve.

[Cones]

One thing to note is that you can't use it outside (not sure about the other electronic trainers ?).

Steve.

The Noptel system works outside. It uses a prism system to reflect light back.

But it is very expensive as it was developed as a military system rather than as a sports trainer.

The rifle or pistol mounted sensor is heavy compared with the other systems as well.

HTH

Mark

[Rutty]

Rika, SCATT and Noptel all do the same thing but slightly differently.

SCATT and Rika use Infra Red whilst Noptel is an optical system.

SCATT has the largest user base and the software is regularly updated. It does just about everything you would want from beginner to international level.

RIKA is somewhat "clunkier" than SCATT and is lacking some features, however it does have a couple of useful things that SCATT does not have, e.g. cant monitoring. For the beginner/improver RIKA is fine and a number of international shots have used it very sucessfully. It does have one significant advantage over SCATT, secondhand RIKA systems tend to be quite a lot cheaper!

Noptel has all the bells and whistles, at a price. So think carefully whether you need what Noptel has to offer. It is the most flexible of the 3 sytems as regards live firing, but do you need that feature? It does have one significant physical advantage, there are no down range cables. RIKA requires power to the target sensor and SCATT requires a cable from firing point to target. Noptel requires nothing but the laptop to run it, the target end is a passive reflector.

The learning curve on all 3 systems is very steep. Whichever you choose, try before you buy and make sure that you have someone available to lead you through it. I wonder how many SCATTs there are gathering dust at the back of cupboards because their owners haven't been able to properly exploit their potential?

To sum up, someone once said:

"Trying to train without SCATT is like trying to practice medicine with out X-Rays"

ATB
Rutty

[jonyb]

i have the use of a rika at home,
one advantage over the scatt is that you can live fire with a rika.
the optical sensor which mounts onto the pistol weigh's 50g plus the weight of the cable, this at least builds up you stamina/strength.
i would agree that these systems are for those shooters who are at a competant level already, and trying to eek out those extra 10's.
best used with the aid of a coach who can analize the data and implement changes to your technique.
personally, once the novelty has worn off i have found it remains in it's case longer and longer, a bit of a tiresome job to set up and put away everytime.

[McTrucky]

Thanks for the comments all, much appreciated.

..... once the novelty has worn off i have found it remains in it's case longer and longer, a bit of a tiresome job to set up and put away everytime.

This is my fear about shelling out significant dosh...

I'm also putting in a large garage/workshop early next year, so possibly could set it up in the permanently.

I've got a coaching session coming up in a month and will talk it through with others then. In the meantime- if anyone does have a system gathering dust, particularly the Scatt system by the sound of it, drop me a PM. I've got an old Honda Fireblade gathering dust that could be converted....

Cheers
McT

[jonyb]

if it is set up permanentaly then happy days ! the ideal solution.

if you do buy one and get bored then the re-sale value is good, you will not lose much, if any, if you buy s/h.

[Cones]

It might be of interest if you didn't know already.

You can download the Scatt software for free here :- http://www.scatt.com/support.htm

If you then download some example files from here :- http://ematch.scatt.com/download/

You can playback the traces and see the type of information that you can expect to get. Some of the traces from the top shooters are amazing to see as well. The ability to hold steady is very apparent in some cases.

Thanks

Mark

[RobF]

Rika, SCATT and Noptel all do the same thing but slightly differently.

SCATT and Rika use Infra Red whilst Noptel is an optical system.

SCATT has the largest user base and the software is regularly updated. It does just about everything you would want from beginner to international level.

RIKA is somewhat "clunkier" than SCATT and is lacking some features, however it does have a couple of useful things that SCATT does not have, e.g. cant monitoring. For the beginner/improver RIKA is fine and a number of international shots have used it very sucessfully. It does have one significant advantage over SCATT, secondhand RIKA systems tend to be quite a lot cheaper!

Noptel has all the bells and whistles, at a price. So think carefully whether you need what Noptel has to offer. It is the most flexible of the 3 sytems as regards live firing, but do you need that feature? It does have one significant physical advantage, there are no down range cables. RIKA requires power to the target sensor and SCATT requires a cable from firing point to target. Noptel requires nothing but the laptop to run it, the target end is a passive reflector.

The learning curve on all 3 systems is very steep. Whichever you choose, try before you buy and make sure that you have someone available to lead you through it. I wonder how many SCATTs there are gathering dust at the back of cupboards because their owners haven't been able to properly exploit their potential?

To sum up, someone once said:

"Trying to train without SCATT is like trying to practice medicine with out X-Rays"

ATB
Rutty

Agreed.

Got both sitting here (gathering dust at the moment).

The most productive shooter i know who uses one has a setup that's very quick to setup (so he can use it easily and often), has basic knowledge of how it works, and a coach.

I think really that's when you get your money's worth out of them. You can say they give you more range time at home, but its just a tool that you use to help with improvement, without a training program it's not going to help all by itself to any comparable degree.

SCATT is sort of the standard in the uk, just because it's the most abundant and familiar.

RIKA is similar as pointed out, bit more clunky.

NOPTEL is a bit different... wasn't too keen on the demo i saw over the other two, but i think you need to know what you are looking for to make the correct decision.

Each will give you basic trace feedback, and from there it's a case of using the tools available to work with along side your training.