re getting started black powder

[CHRIS HUGHES]

Hi,

My local RFD tells me you have to get a explosives ticket, take a health and safety course.
So please can anyone tell me how to get started and how to go about it.
cheers chris

[DedIdick]

Satisfy the requirements (be a member of a club and have them act as one of your referees). Put in for your FAC for your required firearm.
EG: .44 muzzle Loading revolver

Buy firearm,

Use black-powder equivalents like 777 or pyrodex, then no Explosive licence or HSE RCA document required.

If you decide that you want to use genuine Black Powder explosive, then you will require an Explosives licence and a HSE RCA (Recipient Competent Authority) to transport the black powder.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/explosives/information/rca.htm

[CHRIS HUGHES]

Hi,
i was thinking of getting black powder shotgun/musket so as to go on shotgun cert from henry krank,but was not sure of black powder cert.
cheers chris

[enfield2band]

If you are just going to use the gun as a shotgun you do not need to be in a club.
You can apply for an explosive licence from the Firearms dept. and it will be sent automatically. You will then need to copy your FAC and Explosive licence and send it to the HSE in Liverpool who will then send you an RCA document to allow you to carry blackpowder.
If you are going to use a substitute, as previously mentioned, you do not need an explosive licence or an RCA document.

If you are going to use it to fire a single projectile, or less than six pellets, you will need to put it on an FAC as a musket and be in a recognised club.

[CHRIS HUGHES]

I belong to two clubs with a third club less than 3 miles away.
This longs like a long process but looking at it, it should be quite an easy one.
Will try and get my head round it.
Thanks for the advice, i shall be firing a single projectile and use substitute powder.
cheers chris

[markH]

I was under the impression that single ball could be fired on shotgun certificate IF used on approved ranges.

The weapon itself qualifies as a shotgun, and since there are no pre-loaded cartridges there is no need for a FAC from the ammunition point of view.

Once on an approved firing range loading it with a single projectile is no different from using club ammunition in a club rifle.

Obviously it can only be used with normal shot loads outside of approved ranges.

[enfield2band]

I was under the impression that single ball could be fired on shotgun certificate IF used on approved ranges.

The weapon itself qualifies as a shotgun, and since there are no pre-loaded cartridges there is no need for a FAC from the ammunition point of view.

Once on an approved firing range loading it with a single projectile is no different from using club ammunition in a club rifle.

Obviously it can only be used with normal shot loads outside of approved ranges.

Hi Mark,
There is no difference between a breech loading shotgun and a muzzleloading one.
Once you put a single ball into the shotgun it becomes a musket and it then becomes a Section 1 firearm.
I have checked with my firearms department and they have said that anything firing a single projectile is classed as a firearm not a shotgun.
If you put a rifled slug, or single ball, into a breech loading shotgun you come into the realm of Section 1 firearms.
You need FAC approval to have a loaded cartridge with a rifled slug, or ball, so you cannot take a shotgun to an approved range and fire a single projectile unless you have authorisation to posses them.
Once the charge and the ball has been loaded into the muzzleloader it is the same as having a loaded cartridge.

Atb

[markH]

I'm pretty certain this has been discussed before on the forum. The difference is that with a breech loader the ammunition is subject to section 1 and therefore an FAC is required to posess it.

With a muzzle loader it does not become a firearm untill it is loaded, and being on an approved range it is OK to fire without a certificate. Otherwise provisional members who did not have a certificate could not use club guns on the range.

Another example would be if a club decided to host a practical shotgun event then members could turn up with their section 2 shotties, use slug ammo provided by the club and fired on the range and all would (presumably) be legal. With the big proviso that all slug ammo was either expended on the range or handed back to the club.

Perhaps we should open this up in a separate thread?

[enfield2band]

Hi,
This is obviously a grey area and I can only quote what I have been told by my firearms department.

Provisional members, or someone that has never fired a gun in their life can go to a club and shoot under supervision.
If a club has an open day then that club, if authorised to use single projectiles in a shotgun, is not breaking any laws allowing their use on the range they run.

A friend of mine, who has a farm has two muzzleloading shotguns, and he enquired about using them on his land as muskets and he was refused permission for the reason previously stated.

Atb

[enfield2band]

Hi,
As this seems to be a grey area I made some enquiries and someone who is in a different licencing area has all of his smoothbores on his shotgun certificate and only shoots single ball with them.
The firearms department are aware of this and actually put the smoothbores on SG even though he told them they would be used as muskets.

I think it is a point that needs to be clarified to avoid people being prosecuted if FAC departments are doing it differently in each area.

The safest option would be to contact your FEO and see what they say.

Obviously I stand corrected on some points I made in an earlier thread even though these were based on what my local FEO told me.
I will make some more enquiries and see if I can pin the actual legislation down so we have the proper facts.
Atb.

[CHRIS HUGHES]

Hi,

Thanks for all your help, my firearms dept say a single projectile must go on FAC, which i have and will get variation for, even thought it has a smooth bore.
It can go on my FAC besides my mossberg 500 which i shoot slugs(not the garden type), but i was unsure about the older type muskets etc.

I will use substite powder and not black powder.

cheers chris

[enfield2band]

Hi,

Thanks for all your help, my firearms dept say a single projectile must go on FAC, which i have and will get variation for, even thought it has a smooth bore.
It can go on my FAC besides my mossberg 500 which i shoot slugs(not the garden type), but i was unsure about the older type muskets.

I will use substite powder and not black powder.

cheers chris

I bet using the mossberg on garden slugs would be more fun that putting salt on them, if you did that is.

[markH]

This raises some interesting issues, suppose someone has just one shotgun which was a normal section 2 as regards to magazine capacity, barrel length and overall length etc. The gun is used as a normal shotgun in the field for small game with normal game loads.

Now suppose the user then applies to use slug on occasion for whatever purpose. My understanding of the situation is that the gun itself remains on SGC but the slug ammo goes on a firearms certificate and the AMMUNITION may have restrictions as far as the location(s) where it may be used.

If the local firearms department are going to insist that the gun itself is then a section 1 it has long reaching consequences:-

1) Once classified as section 1 it can NEVER be re-classified as a shotgun even if it conforms to the normal definition of a shotgun. This will apply regardless of whether or not future owners wish to use section 1 ammo.

2). Unless the user and or future owners are granted an open certificate it can never be used for normal game shooting or clays.

3). Because of the foregoing it will be much harder to sell and

4). Will almost certainly lose value in that it will be subject to FAC without having an extended magazine capacity or shorter barrel.

[acmsarh]

A section 1 shotgun can be downgraded by the proof house on inspection ,Think of all the 303's that have been smoothbored and are S2.
The only thing that cannot be taken into another classification is a prohibited S5 weapon.

[DJS]

Shooting ball in a muzzleloader on sgc is ok on approved ranges, see here.
Daz