Reply With QuoteChaps,
Muzzle loading shotguns are not Section 1 irrespective of the number of projectiles that they are loaded with. This has been discussed at length in previous threads.
Steve.
Registered User
WHAT? I don't think so. Once you have a firearm (of any section that may be shot) that requires black powder you just have to apply for the Explosives Licence. You will need the special box but you can make that yourself from plans that are on the net.Originally Posted by CHRIS HUGHES
http://www.black-powder.co.uk/woodenbox.pdf
You then fax the FAC & ExL details to the HSE and they send you back the Transport licence.
Does this make sense, or what? There's some unecessary paper that could be eliminated - Mr Cameron, are you listening?
Perhaps an FAC authorising a muzzle loader could also be the ExL and RCA. Just a thought.
Registered User
Chaps,
Muzzle loading shotguns are not Section 1 irrespective of the number of projectiles that they are loaded with. This has been discussed at length in previous threads.
Steve.
Registered User
It would appear that different areas have different rules, taking on board all the advise i will go and see my fire arms officer, as well has talk to the shop.
Henry Krank has a write up in his current sales book, which exsplains.
Any more advice would be helpfull in the meantime.
Thanking you again for your help.
cheers chris
take the fight to the fight, never retreat and a man with two guns but only one mag
Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
I don't know the answer to the question about multiple projectiles / Section 1 etc. ; but I WOULD suggest that the best way to resolve it is to get a copy of the statute itself, and try to interpret it (which might be a task!
Police and firearms dealers, even solicitors not familiar with this area of law, can tell you anything. I've been told some real doozy stories by firearms dealers.
Jim
UBC's Police Pistol Manager
"Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone
I shoot and I vote
One of the problems we have Jim is our FAC/SGC's are issued by our local police authority, theres maybe 20 for the UK, and each one interprets the law/Home Office guidelines in their own way.
For instance Kent dont like to allow .357mag underlevers for vermin control, East Sussex do because its not capable of travelling much more than 300yds where a .22 can go a mile. If I have an open ticket and a .357 in Sussex I can go shoot vermin in Kent with it but they can't come here and use my gun, crazy eh.
The 7.62/.308 saga is just too long to go into but Kent see the ammo as 2 different rounds although they both fit the same gun, you can imagine the different interpretations they can come up with there. Same with .357/.38spl.
We then have the problem with "law" and "guidance" and the way its interpreted. Query something and they say according to the guidance "no you can't have that" even if it fits with the laws. But if you get something they say "no" but you say it comforms to the guidance and they tell you its only guidance not the law
Last edited by Smokeless Coal; 11-11-2010 at 10:45 AM.
“If a cricketer, for instance, suddenly decided to go into a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat, which he could do very easily, I mean, are you going to ban cricket bats?” :- Prince Philip said after Dunblane
Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
But under the law, are they ALLOWED to interpret the law in their own way?
This is where your shooting organizations need to be taking the police to task.
Jim
UBC's Police Pistol Manager
"Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone
Registered User
Whether they are allowed to do it is neither here nor there........ THEY DO do it. As with all all government agencies they make a decision and "stick to their guns" with unlimited resources behind them.
It's then down to the shooter to argue his case and risk a fortune in legal fees. The shooting organisations do help but unfortunately they too have limited finances and nothing like the political clout of your NRA.
One of the Blackhand Gang
Mark H is absolutely right Jim.
There is nothing in the firearms act that states you need a steel cabinet to store your guns, but you will not get a firearm or shotgun certificate without one.
Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
WOW! This is certainly police usurpation of people's rights!
Makes me want to send a contribution to our NRA (to which I and my late wife Jan are life members), to ensure they'll keep working for us.
Police have a job to do, and that's to enforce the law, whether they like the law in question or not. It's not their job to ignore the law, and it's not their job to make law, either.
Jim
UBC's Police Pistol Manager
"Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone
Registered User
Hi Jim
Part of our problem over this side of the pond is the glorious wish by all civil servants (police included) to gold plate any piece of legislation and in the process the person doing it put their own twist on it. As smokeless coal said there are 20 odd different police areas each with a chief, they meet several times a year in a group called the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) and decided in general how the law will be interpreted.
I want through this ball for a flintlock musket hassle as one of my club when I was joining was determined it needed an FAC, so the club put a blocker on my shooting it until they had asked Dyfed Powys our police area. The firearm department who had said ok then went oh not sure. Finally it was put up at an ACPO meeting by an NRA and NRSA rep and back came the ok because of the good work done by the MLGB.
Part the trouble is the fire arms guys aren’t centrally trained so its easier to say NO then check with there boss later than read the book which is online.
Chris
When you get your black powder certificate don’t forget to photocopy both sides other wise the HSE will send it back. Also if told you have to store your box in the bedroom or some else stupid, the rule states it has to be within your property which is within your owned bounardy (curtilage, think that how you spell it) which means your garrage or shed or bunker if you want one.
Cheers
Nigel
Registered User
Find yourself a better club. It's bad enough that we have outside enemies without Jobsworths deciding what you can & cannot shoot.
Registered User
I use pyrodex. No real problem storing or safety. I have found no real difference to BP except its a little quieter and dont cover you for 50 miles in smoke. Well a few feet. BP safety and regs in rediculour you would think its nitro .
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