Bell Target Shooting.

[RobinC]

In answer to a question on the original size of the old 10 mt target, I searched out an envelope I knew I had somewhere with samples of old targets.
What I had forgotten was I had a sample of the old 18ft (5.5mt, wow! early days of decimal!) ARCA (Air Rifle Clubs Association) rifle target, this was the forerunner of NARPA (National Air Rifle & Pistol Association). This target was a paper representation of the Bell Target and ARCA and NARPA was midlands based, started by Denis Cummins.
We only shot NARPA for a short period in the very early 70's and then specialised in 10 mt and still do. You guys probably know all about this and already have samples of these targets but If any does'nt and wan'ts a scan give me an e on robin.carter80@ntlworld.com
Good Shooting
Robin

[zooma]

Having read and greatly appreciated all of the comments received so far, it is obvious that there is a fair amount of "flexibilty" in the rules to suite local traditions or choices when shooting Bell Target.

The excellent book "Ring My Bell" by Frank Spittle records the last major competition in the UK for Bell target shooting was held during the NARPA Finals at RAF Cosford and was won by the team from Guernsey, second was Nuneaton and third was Hinkley.

What appealed to me was the four man team format with each team member taking 10 shots, as it seemed to me that this would make an ideal way for us to start as each team requires less members and so will be ideally suited for our local (small club) circumstances.

If we are successful and able to build the interest, then maybe (at a later date) we could consider the bigger 8 man teams and fall more into line with the majority that already shoot on a regular basis.

We can also have some fun within our own club with individual competitions, so this is how we will start shooting at 6 yards with round nose pellets, 10 shots per shooter and with rifles restricted to spring power and single stroke pneumatic .177 rifles only.

This gives a fair bit of choice as far as rifles go, and we hope to encourage the use of the classic match rifles such as the FWB 300S, Walther LGR, Original Model 66 and 75 etc. These rifles are good and easy to pick up at reasonable prices, and I would like to see the current PCP type rifles used at 10 meters where they excell, and leave the 6 yard work to the "modern classics".

No doubt the rules will be refined a little as we gain some experience and learn as we go - but this is how I propose we start here in Rossendale.

[thimblehouse]

I would like to suggest shooting 5 shots twice. On an alternate basis (one Home followed by one Away team member)
A home team member starts first and then in the second set the away team starts.
This gives a fuller event and stops shooters drifting off after their set.
This could give two possabilities.
1) An over all match score
or 2) Shoot person v person 1pt for a win 1/2 for a draw then add them all together for a final team total.

As for rifle I would agree, but in reality PCP have no advantage over springers at this short distance.
Round nose pellets are definately best.

Cosford was one hell of event remember going with my Dad who was taking part.

[zooma]

I would like to suggest shooting 5 shots twice. On an alternate basis (one Home followed by one Away team member)
A home team member starts first and then in the second set the away team starts.
This gives a fuller event and stops shooters drifting off after their set.
This could give two possabilities.
1) An over all match score
or 2) Shoot person v person 1pt for a win 1/2 for a draw then add them all together for a final team total.

As for rifle I would agree, but in reality PCP have no advantage over springers at this short distance.
Round nose pellets are definately best.

Cosford was one hell of event remember going with my Dad who was taking part.

Thanks for the suggestions, I think the alternative shooting idea is good when we have 10 shots per shooter with only 4 in a team - do you know if this was the way the Cosford Bell Target events were shot?

I took part in the NARPA events at RAF Cosford, but in the air pistol events with my Feinwerkbau Model 65, and once with my Feinwerkbau 300S as well - but to my shame I never noticed the Bell target event - but wish I had seen it.

I think the top PCP rifles have an advantage over the "modern classics" at any distance, but the reason for not wanting them to be used in our Bell target events is to give an approving "nod" to what I consider to be the "golden age" of match air rifles that I would like to keep alive at least once a week in our Bell Target event if I can.

Not only that, a good working example of any of the 300S/LGR/LGV/Anshutz250/Mod 66 and 75 can be picked up for £200 or less (sometimes a lot less) and this is the way to encourage more to join the sport and" have a go". I know that mint examples will often cost more - but not that much more - and not enough to make them an unattractive buy.

The sight of very expensive PCP match rifles ( many costing over 3 grand new) being used at 6 yards can easilly put potential newcomers off - even if a local hot shot beats them with his break barrel springer - so I think they are better kept for the serious 10 meter work they were designed for.

[thimblehouse]

To be honest I was to young to remember but can ask some of those I know who where there as well.

I shoot with a 300s and yes regulary out shoot the PCP's costing around £1800 to £2300. The prices of the 300s often surprise me most ask around £350 these days, similar price for the 600's. Not that long ago £150 was the norm for 300s.
My team will take delivery of an Air Arms 400 MPR shortly new about £750 to £800 (a gift). We will also have Gun Power Edges to use supplied courtesy of Gun Power. Plus we also have a SMK xs79, new about £100 new (fitted with diopters by us) and used by some junior members as its very light.

When doing indoor ranges at Game shows we are often asked which is the easiest always reply the 10m. They look at you mad, then after trying the Bell at 6yds and stopping them leaning on the table they then agree with us.

Some leagues have strict rules on the type of rifles ie no recoiless rifles and only open sights. In order to cover a wide range of people, in the league I shoot in, we dont have such rules. In this way it does not restrict members who think because they have an expensive rifle, they can shoot better. They can use what they have with no need to go a buy another rifle. We do however ask but dont check rifles should not exceed 7 foot pounds for simple safety over bounce back.

[zooma]

Hi Plinker,

I like the idea of Bell target shooting, but I admit I find it hard to believe your claim that shooting at 6 yards on a Bell Target is harder than shooting at 10 meters on a 10 meter paper target - it makes no sense to me at all and defies all logic.

As far as I know the "bull" on a Bell Target is 3/8" - quite a bit larger than the "bull" used on targets at 10 meters ( a comparitive pin head) - so how can the bigger target at a shorter distance with a bigger bull be harder to hit? I am guessing you are comparing these two distances when using similar rifles?

Both disciplines are shot "free standing" ( not leaning on a table as you mention), so whilst I think it is good to promote the sport of Bell Target shooting, I am not too sure about the authenticiy of comparing it with the 10 meter air rifle discipline as a more difficult target to hit.

Maybe the pressure of shooting in a Bell Target match is what you mean?.this I can understand as 10 meter rifle shooting is seldom a live team event shot in a comparitively noisey and distracting club or pub with both teams watching the shooter perform - that kind of pressure would make it harder to perform - but it would not make the bull any smaller or the distance any longer.

We are also lucky to still have a good supply of 300S rifles ( and similar types) at £200 or less and have not seen any offered at the quoted regular asking price of £350 that you mention in your reply - if they were that expensive to buy, and if 6 yard shooting is more dificult to shoot than 10 meter shooting, then I think some of the "fun" aspect of Bell Target shooting can be lost when trying to promote the sport.

Fortunately, good used working match rifles can still be bought for £200 or less, and most think hitting a 3/8 hole at 6 yards is easier than hitting a pin head at 10 meters, and are happy to tackle it with a less expensive rifle.

[thimblehouse]

You will learn. Remeber too many restrictions will put people off. The wider to coverage and appeal the better to keep the fun going. My club will have a christmas shoot shortly and replace the guns for rubber sucker ones just for fun.

[Jimlad]

Hi Plinker

I am sorry to disagree with you again, 10 metre easier than bell target? You are having a laugh! The skill required to compete even at club level at ten metre is far superior to that required in bell target. I have shot bell target and ten metre for 40 years plus, and I can guarantee you that 10 metre is a lot more difficult, there is a different pressure with bell target, but the skill required to shoot 60 shots free standing at a pin head at ten metres just don’t relate, if you find ten metre so easy maybe you should be shooting for your county/country , I think the last Gold medal score was 598/600 that is 58/60 pin heads at 10 metres, what type of scores are you recording at bell target? 3/8th” hole

Jim

[thimblehouse]

Of coarse 60 shots is harder than 6 or 10. Wrong comparison.

[Jimlad]

Hi

I stand by my statement, your quote ' When doing indoor ranges at Game shows we are often asked which is the easiest always reply the 10m. They look at you mad, then after trying the Bell at 6yds and stopping them leaning on the table they then agree with us'. even over six shots shooting at a pin head over 10 metres, or a 3/8" inch hole at 6 or 5 yards, the 10 metre will be more difficult.

With regards to the Pcp over the single stroke pneumatic, you are right in saying that many shooters can hold their own with the 300s etc against the high cost full modern match rifle, but put two equal shooters in experience and capability against each other, over a few matches and there will be only one outcome. The fit, balance, trigger, the fact there is no effort in loading will all tell, and what have Feinwerkbau been doing over the last 50 years wasting their time?

Jim

[thimblehouse]

It was explained to me recently, by a British 10m campion why he did Bell Target and most came off saying Bell is harder.
Its all down to mechanics. Unless you have amazing eye sight or use magnification seeing the 1/2 mm dot in the centre of a 10 diagram clearly
is near impossible. So when using ring front sight as most do, you put the who black of the diagram in the ring to shoot for the bull.
You then do the same with Bell. The bell black centre is smaller when looking through the sights and as such appears more difficult.
He also added he did Bell as it was more of a chalenge shooting by yourself than in a row with no one checking every shot.
This putting him in good practice for 10m.

Weather you get a bull at the end of the day is another thing.

[RobinC]

I'm not biased against any branch of the shooting sport, if its with guns I like it, my wife and I do smallbore prone (used to do 3P .22 and fullbore) still do 10 mt air, but come on guys get realistic, bell is equivalent to shooting at the 6 ring (7 at best!) on 10 mt.

Were not demeaning it, Ok its fun, a great sport, but its not difficult compared to 10 mt. And the pressure of a live shoot? There are many live 10 mt shoots, did one this week end. Look up Sonja Phfeilshifter on You Tube shooting a 400 ex 400 at 10mts in a German Budesliga team event, in front of a screaming, stamping crowd and also with pop music playing!!! Sonja incidently is "probably" the best air rifle shooter in the world, men or women and shoots 400's regularly.
Good shooting
Robin

[MikeLewis]

I feel I have to disagree with the statement that bell target is easier than 10m. I'm also curious which British 10m champion you were speaking to about. There's very few that actually shoot bell target and the few that do are capable of shooting to a very high standard with or without kit, but would never entertain the idea of shooting 10m without full kit! Those that have shot have used it as training exercises and mental training for finals.

No 10m aims for the half mil 10, to do so would be an impossilble task. The black extends out to the 4 ring making a big black circle which is centred in the fore sight with a measured amount of white around the black circle created. A common problem is people using too small a foresight thinking it'll make them shoot more accurately when it usually leads to other problems. Most people would use a smaller foresight for bell using a similar principle. But on the flip side i have seen people take a foresight out and use just a tunnel because it was too small and shot very well.

Those who shoot bell in and out will tell you it reinforces alignment to target, positional awareness and mental toughness and they're right. But shooting 10m will be more beneficial technique wise than someone shooting bell. I've seen possibles shot longarm on a bell target but don't ever recall anyone shooting much more than 500/600 in a 10m comp.

Anybody that can shoot 570 at 10m WILL shoot posssibles on bell, but not everybody that can shoot possibles is capable of shooting 570 at 10m.

I've shot bell target for over 15yrs, to a high standard, I've shot possible season averages, won inter regional bell target competitions and shot 'perfect' scores. I've also shot 10m over that period, winning open competitions, inter regional comps and represent Wales. Bell target is a fun and challenging sportand has introduced many people to the sport of shooting, but will always be an easier discipline than 10m.

Aim straight
Mike

[markmac]

I feel I have to disagree with the statement that bell target is easier than 10m. I'm also curious which British 10m champion you were speaking to about. There's very few that actually shoot bell target and the few that do are capable of shooting to a very high standard with or without kit, but would never entertain the idea of shooting 10m without full kit! Those that have shot have used it as training exercises and mental training for finals.

No 10m aims for the half mil 10, to do so would be an impossilble task. The black extends out to the 4 ring making a big black circle which is centred in the fore sight with a measured amount of white around the black circle created. A common problem is people using too small a foresight thinking it'll make them shoot more accurately when it usually leads to other problems. Most people would use a smaller foresight for bell using a similar principle. But on the flip side i have seen people take a foresight out and use just a tunnel because it was too small and shot very well.

Those who shoot bell in and out will tell you it reinforces alignment to target, positional awareness and mental toughness and they're right. But shooting 10m will be more beneficial technique wise than someone shooting bell. I've seen possibles shot longarm on a bell target but don't ever recall anyone shooting much more than 500/600 in a 10m comp.

Anybody that can shoot 570 at 10m WILL shoot posssibles on bell, but not everybody that can shoot possibles is capable of shooting 570 at 10m.

I've shot bell target for over 15yrs, to a high standard, I've shot possible season averages, won inter regional bell target competitions and shot 'perfect' scores. I've also shot 10m over that period, winning open competitions, inter regional comps and represent Wales. Bell target is a fun and challenging sportand has introduced many people to the sport of shooting, but will always be an easier discipline than 10m.

Aim straight
Mike

Thanks for this post Mike - very interesting.

I am an absolute newbie at this sport having just bought a very nice Anschutz 380 and making my own Bell Target for practice.I have tried and failed to use dioptre sights effectively as I find I cannot get a reasonable / bright sight picture with my current set up and so have chickened out and fitted a small scope to the rifle - just for plinking .I realise I have to use dioptres if I want to shoot bell target properly and now having read this thread will try different set ups to the foresight and perhaps the rearsight aperture to get a better target image.

Thanks again.

[thimblehouse]

The brightness can be adjusted by using a variable aperature back sight on the diopter.