Starting in blackpowder

[$harp$hooter]

I apologise as I'm sure this has been asked before.

I am looking into possibly getting into BP but just want to clarify a few things regarding the law.

1) Am I right in saying that I can purchase a section 58 BP shotgun/rifle/pistol without having a SGC/FAC as i wouldn't intend to shoot it?

2) After applying to get an FAC/SGC can I just transfer over the section 58 items to apply?

3) What are legal to buy prior to obtaining the necessary FAC/SGC and relevant legislation.

I also know that I would need to apply for an explosive certificate but that would be well after establishing all of the above.

Thanks in advance

Dan

[tacfoley]

Sir - you cannot buy a shotgun of modern manufacture, even a muzzleloader that uses loose powder, without a SGC.

You CAN buy a smoothbored antique firearm without any form of licence, except a birth certificate that shows that you are over 18 yo, even a rifled frearm that is an antique of an obslolete calibre, but you are not permitted to shoot it unless you subsequently license it either as a shotgun - smoothbore and SGC, or Section 1 firearm - rifled.

tac

[TA6319]

I have purchased a few rifles/shotguns as section 58(2), with a shotgun you just inform the Police you have it. A rifle has to have a available slot for that caliber. Its easy enough to do, with a shotgun and a rifle just takes a bit of time. Keep an eye on antique shops and places like that.

[$harp$hooter]

I have purchased a few rifles/shotguns as section 58(2), with a shotgun you just inform the Police you have it. A rifle has to have a available slot for that caliber. Its easy enough to do, with a shotgun and a rifle just takes a bit of time. Keep an eye on antique shops and places like that.

So it is a legal requirement that you inform the police if you buy a S58 shotgun? And to buy a S58 rifle do you need your FAC and available slots?

[tacfoley]

Please read this -

Antiques
Section 58(2) of the 1968 Act exempts from the provisions of the Act - including certificate controls under sections 1 and 2 and prohibition under section 5 - all antique firearms which are sold, transferred, purchased, acquired or possessed as curiosities or ornaments. The word "antique" is not defined in the Act but Home Office guidance on the subject can be summarised briefly as follows:

If modern ready made ammunition can be bought and fired using the weapon it cannot be classed as an antique; A muzzle loading firearm is antique; A breech loading firearm using a rim-fire cartridge exceeding .23 (but not 9mm) is antique; A breech loading firearm using an ignition system other than rim-fire or centre is antique; A breech loading centre fire firearm originally chambered for cartridges which are now obsolete and retains that original chambering is antique. However, each case should be dealt with on its merits and advice on individual weapons should be sought from the FSP. The case of R v Burke 67 Cr App R 220 dictates that it is for the Prosecution to prove that the firearm does not come within the ambit of section 58(2) and it is a matter for the jury to decide upon.

tac

[TA6319]

sorry I should have said you inform the police only if you want to use a section 58(2) shotgun. As tac said read the act

[enfield2band]

Please read this -

Antiques
Section 58(2) of the 1968 Act exempts from the provisions of the Act - including certificate controls under sections 1 and 2 and prohibition under section 5 - all antique firearms which are sold, transferred, purchased, acquired or possessed as curiosities or ornaments. The word "antique" is not defined in the Act but Home Office guidance on the subject can be summarised briefly as follows:

If modern ready made ammunition can be bought and fired using the weapon it cannot be classed as an antique; A muzzle loading firearm is antique; A breech loading firearm using a rim-fire cartridge exceeding .23 (but not 9mm) is antique; A breech loading firearm using an ignition system other than rim-fire or centre is antique; A breech loading centre fire firearm originally chambered for cartridges which are now obsolete and retains that original chambering is antique. However, each case should be dealt with on its merits and advice on individual weapons should be sought from the FSP. The case of R v Burke 67 Cr App R 220 dictates that it is for the Prosecution to prove that the firearm does not come within the ambit of section 58(2) and it is a matter for the jury to decide upon.

tac

There are grey areas in the Firearms Act as I am sure you are aware.

A .45/577" Martini Henry can be bought as a collectors item without an FAC. Technically the ammunition is obsolete but we all know that the cartridge cases can be bought and reloaded.
It seems that if you have one of these it is only considered as an antique if you do not have the ammunition for it. Once you load some up you then enter the realms of our restrictive legislation.

I recall reading some time ago that Bill Harriman (BASC) argued that you could have original ammunition with one of these as it is also collectable and only becomes subject to the Firearms Act if it is taken out to be used.

A Martini Enfield still needs an FAC because it is .303" centrefire.

[davederrick]

2) After applying to get an FAC/SGC can I just transfer over the section 58 items to apply?

My FLO told me not to write it on my FAC, but to send the FAC to them to transfer S58 to S1. However, different FLO seem to think differently.