Webley versus Steyr shock!!!!

[I. J.]

Not me unfortunately. It would be interesting to see how the firing characteristics of a Wobbly could be changed for the better, not that there is anything wrong with them as standard of course, apart from my Tempest, who is still in the naughty corner awaiting execution.

Maybe we could get Ians "Orca" short stroked as well. The velocity and minimal recoil make the piece pretty accurate as standard. Reckon performance would increase dramatically if he could load those thick elastic bands that postmen leave all over the show. Nobody would be safe then!

Andy

Well, if the execution is by a Tempest owning firing squad - its safe!

I have thought of increasing Orcas power by knotting the elastic bands but whats power without accuracy. 9 out of 10 bulls (Gladys belly) is good enough for me.

ATB
Ian

[Amac]

Yes, but range needs increasing to above 20 yards. That way you will be able to ambush people safe behind cover.

[Abasmajor]

Hello Guy,

Very interesting bit of research. I have never owned an original 'Brummie' Tempest but as you may have gathered from other threads, I am now the proud owner of a new 'Turkish' Tempest. I would have originally preferred it to have been been in .22, but unfortunately this was not to be and I have to admit I am very pleased with the .177 model I now possess. The 'Turkish' Tempest is quite hard, but not unreasonably hard to cock and has I nice little kick which for me anyway is all part of the fun of shooting spring powered air pistols.

Regards

Brian

[ggggr]

I did a bit of tinkering and plinking today and if anybody is interested, this is what I did.
I have a .22 Tempest fitted with a Typhoon spring. I normally shoot with Milbro Caledonian pellets but have used Marksmen recently, which shoot ok but don't seem as good a fit as the Milbros. I did try Some Hobby pellets that John (the back half of Josie and John) sent me and found them to shoot ok.

I found a couple of mainsprings today. One was a broken round section one that came out of a Hurricane (Typhoon spring maybe?) and the other was a squre section spring that went in the gun ok so might be a Hurricane or Tempest one. I collapsed a coil on the broken spring and cleaned it up. I tried it and I seemed to be getting a fair few fliers. The point of impact had moved left as well. I did another coil with similar results. I guess the spring was now 5/8 to 3/4 shorter than standard. The gun did not feel particularly weak and it was easy to cock and the trigger was a bit lighter.
The Hobby pellets seemed best although the grouping was not brilliant.
I then tried the square section spring and the point of impact was also left, so maybe I had knocked the sights. The grouping was better but still not brilliant. The gun was harder to cock.
I went back to the Typhoon spring I had in the gun in the first place and the groupings had tightened up. I adjusted the sights and by the time I wrapped up I had put 6 pellets in a group the size of a bottle cap. I then shot 3 bottle caps. The pistol was shooting a fraction the the right but I left it at that.
I have a feeling that with a .177 rather than the .22 that collapsing 3 or 4 coils on a Typhoon spring might help as the .177 pellet will be lighter and travelling faster than the .22.
I prefer .22 and am happy with my £50 Tempest with the Typhoon spring

updating this ^ so it is in one place and makes it easier for someone to follow.
I got out my nieces Tempest today and fitted the cut down Typhoon spring in it. I gave it a fair old plink. Again I shot 2 handed, partly due to crap arms. not a good paper puncher and to kick off with, the sun was shining on the foresight. Also, the grips on the pistol are a bit wide for me.
I wasn't doing much kop at first but got better as the sun went round. I then started shooting at bottle caps on the ground at 7 1/2 yards. I had to aim in front of them a fraction which is never great or very easy to judge. I hit 24 out of 30. Oddly 4 of the misses (2 lots of 2) were after reset them and did not aim low enough. The other 2 misses were down to my arm being crap. I pulled them to the right.I knew I had missed right away as my arm hurt, which means struggled with the trigger pressure.
After that I had a plink back at the paper. The first 7 shots were ok but not great. Out of the next 12 shots, one was a flier due to a deformed skirt, but as I was shooting ok I thought "what the hell?". The other 11 went into a hole that a 5p piece covered .
So there you have it. I think in .177, just by using a cut down Typhoon mainspring and a bit of work on the trigger (this had only a little done) that you can get pretty good results. The pellets used were Milbro Caledonians.

[zooma]

My .177 Turkish Tempest has now arrived and I put a couple of shots through it before I came home tonight.

I will shoot it some more at the RMTC tomorrow night, but first impressions are:-

1/ that the pistol came in its original box still wrapped in its plastic bag with the handbook and looks like new.

2/ the pistol is harder to cock than my .177 British Tempest, but it had a nice smooth trigger and felt quite good when I shot it.

Tomorrow night at 10 meters on an ISU target is a much tougher test so I will attempt to get it sighted-in and put some more pellets through it, but the pistol feels so "new" and smelt like it was dieseling a little, so I think it may need some time to get "shot-in" before any serious accuracy testing can be made - but it will be shot against my old to get an initial impression at least.

I will try Hobby, Meisterkugeln and GECO to give it its best chance.........unless anyone can suggest a better flat headed match pellet that works better in a .177 Tempest ....?

[Abasmajor]

My .177 Turkish Tempest has now arrived and I put a couple of shots through it before I came home tonight.

I will shoot it some more at the RMTC tomorrow night, but first impressions are:-

1/ that the pistol came in its original box still wrapped in its plastic bag with the handbook and looks like new.

2/ the pistol is harder to cock than my .177 British Tempest, but it had a nice smooth trigger and felt quite good when I shot it.

Tomorrow night at 10 meters on an ISU target is a much tougher test so I will attempt to get it sighted-in and put some more pellets through it, but the pistol feels so "new" and smelt like it was dieseling a little, so I think it may need some time to get "shot-in" before any serious accuracy testing can be made - but it will be shot against my old to get an initial impression at least.

I will try Hobby, Meisterkugeln and GECO to give it its best chance.........unless anyone can suggest a better flat headed match pellet that works better in a .177 Tempest ....?

Hello,

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Turkish 'Tempest compared with the original 'Brummie' pistol.

I think the 'Turkish' pistol must have a stronger mainspring fitted which I believe the original export 'Brummie' models did as it is quite hard to cock.

Mine shoots best as do all my .177 Webleys using H&N 'Match' or RWS 'Hobby' as a cheaper alternative.

Regards

Brian

[zooma]

Hello,

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Turkish 'Tempest compared with the original 'Brummie' pistol.

I think the 'Turkish' pistol must have a stronger mainspring fitted which I believe the original export 'Brummie' models did as it is quite hard to cock.

Mine shoots best as do all my .177 Webleys using H&N 'Match' or RWS 'Hobby' as a cheaper alternative.

Regards

Brian

Hi Brian,

I will let you know as soon as I have been able to give it a fair test.

I think the pistol is pretty close to being brand new and so I will put a tin of pellets through it to let it settle down and stop dieseling before attempting to make any fair accuracy comparisons with my well used BT version.

I can also add the H&N Match pellets to the choice I will test once the pistol is ready for accurate testing - but the new H&N Match aren't as good as the older ones used to be so I am not expecting them to be as good as the RWS types....but you never know.

I do have a tin of H&N pellets from some time ago when they were good - and a tin of the (very similar) Eley Match pellets from the same time period ( very very similar ) so I will try these as well.

The TT is harder to cock than the BT but it did feel smooth so it will be interesting to see the results. The wider trigger on the TT feels better than the narrow one on the BT so I have bought a spare wide trigger and will fit that to the BT sometime as I think it can only improve the feel of the trigger and put both pistols on an equal footing.

[paul404]

My .177 Turkish Tempest has now arrived and I put a couple of shots through it before I came home tonight.

I will shoot it some more at the RMTC tomorrow night, but first impressions are:-

1/ that the pistol came in its original box still wrapped in its plastic bag with the handbook and looks like new.

2/ the pistol is harder to cock than my .177 British Tempest, but it had a nice smooth trigger and felt quite good when I shot it.

Tomorrow night at 10 meters on an ISU target is a much tougher test so I will attempt to get it sighted-in and put some more pellets through it, but the pistol feels so "new" and smelt like it was dieseling a little, so I think it may need some time to get "shot-in" before any serious accuracy testing can be made - but it will be shot against my old to get an initial impression at least.

I will try Hobby, Meisterkugeln and GECO to give it its best chance.........unless anyone can suggest a better flat headed match pellet that works better in a .177 Tempest ....?

Hi Bob I'm not sure about your Tempest but l eventually ended up with R10s in my Premier.
IMHO the Premier is the best shooting Wobbly. I own a Junior, smoothbore no chance, a Senior very poor 3 pin trigger, and a Mk 1, nearly as good as the Prem. I have shot all the later derivatives Temps, Tys, and Hurrys and found them lacking in the engineering quality of their earlier steel antecedents.
Also what evocative names they have compared to the drone like LP 1 lp2 LP ERM 5 etal
I am confident that these pistols will be giving shooting pleasure and FUN to future generations, when my Steyr is a pile of corroded alloy !!
Over to you, rubber band boy!

Hippo

[zooma]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your tip about the R10 ( 4.49 I presume?). I will give them a try next week.

I have a superb boxed F series Premier and would love to target shoot it - but it is a .22. and so far my efforts to find a .177 barrel to fit it have drawn a blank.

One day I will find a .177 barrel to fit it, and when I do I am sure I will enjoy shooting it.

I would also be happy to buy a good .177 Premier if one should come up for sale at a reasonable price.

Keep punching holes in the MPL targets with your Wobbly - it is driving IJ crazy - so it is well worth the effort to keep doing it

Meanwhile I will keep shooting the Turkish Tempest to run it in as it does shoot surprisingly well - but I also know that it does not have the quality feel of the previous Webleys when they were made from steel

[I. J.]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your tip about the R10 ( 4.49 I presume?). I will give them a try next week.

I have a superb boxed F series Premier and would love to target shoot it - but it is a .22. and so far my efforts to find a .177 barrel to fit it have drawn a blank.

One day I will find a .177 barrel to fit it, and when I do I am sure I will enjoy shooting it.

I would also be happy to buy a good .177 Premier if one should come up for sale at a reasonable price.

Keep punching holes in the MPL targets with your Wobbly - it is driving IJ crazy - so it is well worth the effort to keep doing it

Meanwhile I will keep shooting the Turkish Tempest to run it in as it does shoot surprisingly well - but I also know that it does not have the quality feel of the previous Webleys when they were made from steel

Crazy?

Me?

Im not the one trying to get a Wobbly plumbers nightmare of a pistol to shoot half straight.

[Amac]

Interesting thoughts Guy! I wonder if Hippo could even manage a decent group with a Junior though. Put it this way, he would probably still outshoot the rest of us using his own smoothbore. It would indeed be interesting to short stroke a Wobbly!

Andy

[Gerard]

This talk of a target Tempest, as unlikely as it seems (my .22" is in brilliant shape with a great new spring and good seals), has got me thinking of how to adapt the recoil absorber design of my new Pardini K12 to a Webley pistol. It seems simple enough; a polished tungsten cylinder in a matching tube behind the breech, with a small hole going back from the transfer port to this tungsten rod and blasting it rearward at the same moment the pellet goes forward. It damps recoil utterly. If one could turn out such a thing to fit a Tempest, the dynamics would be different obviously, as the problematic mass is moving rearward and is significantly larger/heavier than a pellet. Still, if a quarter to a fifth or so of the airflow could be directed forward at the moment of firing it might be enough to counteract that rearward hammering of the piston somewhat, if not completely. Heck, to achieve accuracy it may even be worth sacrificing 1/2 to 1/3 of the airflow with a larger port.

Looking at my Tempest it seems the hole in the nitrile breech seal is about 3mm diameter. If one were to bore in from the right hand side of the transfer port block (side opposite the barrel catch lever) into that port starting with a 1.5mm or so drill, then graft on as un-ugly a cylinder as one can come up with to the outside of the pistol in front of that area and connect the two with a threaded coupling (short brass tube, threaded at one end and snugly tapped into the aluminum sight block, soldered to the rear of the cylinder at the other end), it just might work to vent 'surplus' air forward and push a cylinder with it, countering the forward recoil native to the pistol. The threaded coupling could be increased gradually in scale until achieving the desired balance. And if it all fails, well, just make a threaded aluminum bolt to fill the hole, to the right length so as to leave the inside face of the transfer port drilling relatively intact, and loctite that into place, filing off the outer surface and painting it black as if nothing had happened. If it worked the cylinder could be finished to more or less match the pistol's style and affixed to the right side of the aluminum frame however one preferred. I'd probably go with a single tab at the front end of the housing with a hole for a short bolt into the aluminum cylinder housing. And to make the anti-recoil weight (bronze rod perhaps, in a black delrin cylinder? tungsten is expensive and hard to work with common tools) maintainable one could make a front cap threaded into place, with a larger hole of course to allow the cylinder to move freely forward.

[Amac]

Blimey Gerard!!!

You have clearly considered the modification at great length. What we all need now is for a Tempest owner out there to donate their guns body to science for the benefit of us all. I know that GGGrrrrr is also interested in carrying out some Tempest experiments. What we need is for the Burke and Hare equivalent of airgunning engineers to go out and dig up some dead late generation Wobblys. Personally, I agree with Hippo that the later Webley pistols are not in the same league as the older stuff. Nevertheless, it would be genuinely interesting to see what could be achieved with a knackered Tempest, a serious amount of time and some engineering prowess. Hope you are enjoying your shooting over there by the way Gerard!

Andy

[Gerard]

Enjoying my shooting very well thanks! When I get the time, at least. I'm heading out to my club in 20 minutes for an evening of formal practice, something I've not managed for more than half an hour all week owing to various family stuff (a 7 year old getting ready for school and generally driving me up the wall with his limitless curiosity) and a rather amazing influx of repair work lately. I wish musicians would take a break from breaking their instruments, at least until I get somewhat caught up. And almost as fondly I wish there were more time to get out into the countryside and do some pistol plinking. One of the best forms of meditation I've found. Takes me right back to childhood.

As for a lot of thinking... no, not really. I saw the thread update, hit 'reply' and started typing as I thought about it. Might be utter nonsense for all I know. If my Tempest were in rough shape I'd give it a go myself, but it's lovely, so no. The thing lets me shoot 1" groups at 5 metres which seems good enough for a pistol jumping so much on firing. I actually enjoy my Junior more, but still wouldn't want to mar the Tempest. And both of those and my pristine Senior provide great trigger control training for my real love of 10 metre AP competition. I'll try and beat my personal best of 553 tonight...

Best of luck with this. I'm sure there are far more Tempests kicking around in your neck of the woods than over here.

[ggggr]

Blimey Gerard!!!

You have clearly considered the modification at great length. What we all need now is for a Tempest owner out there to donate their guns body to science for the benefit of us all. I know that GGGrrrrr is also interested in carrying out some Tempest experiments. What we need is for the Burke and Hare equivalent of airgunning engineers to go out and dig up some dead late generation Wobblys. Personally, I agree with Hippo that the later Webley pistols are not in the same league as the older stuff. Nevertheless, it would be genuinely interesting to see what could be achieved with a knackered Tempest, a serious amount of time and some engineering prowess. Hope you are enjoying your shooting over there by the way Gerard!

Andy

had a quick look at Gerards post and will re read it and try to understand it later.
What I would like to try is something a lot simpler, that somebody with a lathe could knock up pretty quickly and could be reversed if needed. If a Tempest piston was drilled and tapped, it could always have the earlier Premier washer fitted if the gun needed to be taken back to the original stroke.
As I said in the earlier post, just a basic thing---shorter mainspring,polished trigger, a small top hat for the mainspring and a longer piston head/washer.
I prefer shooting .22 but for the "TARGET TEMPEST" I suppose it would have to be in .177.
Having read Gerards post again, it seems this would be easier to do with an earlier pistol, as a new cylinder end plug could be made up that was slightly longer and bored out to take a weight.A small spring could be put behind this weight to stop it flapping about. guessing a plug about 5/8 to 3/4 longer would do it.

He is a bit about Tempest?Hurricane trigger fettling. Refer to these pics http://www.airgunspares.com/store/pr...-Trigger-Wide/
and http://www.airgunspares.com/store/pr...t-Pistol-Sear/
I use 320 and 400 grit wet and dry paper to do them and they seem ok. With the sear, I polish both sides of the rounded bits on top, even though, the piston should not really touch them. I polish and try to take the angle back a touch more, the angled side of the cut out on the right of the picture. On the long leg I go the front face,the underside and the angled bit where it joins the back. (MORE ON THIS IN A BIT). On the trigger I do the flat face above the arc of the trigger blade, the face behind it and reduce the BUMP between that and the bit going up to the pin hole. This BUMP and the back bit of the leg of the sear are what "pauses" the trigger pull before releasing the piston. If you do a little work on the sear and the trigger, you can hold them in your fingers and rub one against another to get a good idea of this.Even with the BUMP on the trigger taken down a bit,I find slightly rounding the back edge of the sear helps. DO NOT GO MAD DOING THIS! Remember you can always have another go, but you cannot replace material.

So a bump for a donor piston or rough/cheap .177 Tempest?