.577 Parker Hale Musketoon.

[tim56]

Finally got to shoot the Musketoon. 55grns of TS2 with a Minnie cast out of pure lead. Crap! Bullets going all over the place
and turning in flight so big long bullet shaped holes in the target. This is the same problem i had with the two band so probably
my mould thats no good. Switched to patched round ball and put 5 straight in the 9 ring and the bull.!!
Expected a big increase in recoil compared with the heavier two band but was pleasantly surprised, sits really nice in the shoulder
with non of the front heavy feeling. Sights are point of aim at 25 yds on the lowest setting and the triggers crisp with no creep
and not as heavy. Mate that bought the two band off me is up for a 50m show down next sat so i may give the bullets another try
with a heavier load, might just need a bit more pressure to expand the base.?? Tim

[tacfoley]

Finally got to shoot the Musketoon. 55grns of TS2 with a Minnie cast out of pure lead. Crap! Bullets going all over the place
and turning in flight so big long bullet shaped holes in the target. This is the same problem i had with the two band so probably
my mould thats no good. Switched to patched round ball and put 5 straight in the 9 ring and the bull.!!
Expected a big increase in recoil compared with the heavier two band but was pleasantly surprised, sits really nice in the shoulder
with non of the front heavy feeling. Sights are point of aim at 25 yds on the lowest setting and the triggers crisp with no creep
and not as heavy. Mate that bought the two band off me is up for a 50m show down next sat so i may give the bullets another try
with a heavier load, might just need a bit more pressure to expand the base.?? Tim

Try 60 and 65gr - remember that the service load was the same for ALL issue long-arms in cartridge-form - 2 1/2 drams [68gr] of FRP [fine rifle powder]. The Minié bullet should be able to be started with a bit of thumb pressure only, and don't fill the base, either Don't expect MOA groups though. On a good day, mine, shooting the usual Lyman deep-based bullet, puts them into about 2-3 inches at 50m, no matter how lucky I'm feeling. My load is 60gr of FFg or 55gr of Pyrodex RS [ducks].

tac

[steve medlock]

Which minie are you using Tim? The Lyman 577611 (i think it is) 530 grain with the thicker skirt and conical cavity works best in my Musketoon. (I would add that I use a .575 sizing die). Much better than the minies that I've used in 2 & 3 bands which I didn't have much luck with in the musketoon. The musketoon has different rifling from memory and obviously with the short barrel is not going to have much in common with the longer rifles. 55g of swiss no4has always worked for me. This is the gun that I enjoy shooting the most.

Steve.

[tim56]

Hi Steve, mine is numbered 575213AM. Bullet weighs in at 572grns, has a dia. of .576", a conical base cavity and on each
side of the mould its stamped LYMAN 585. Have tried this bullet in both my 2 band (now sold) and in my Musketoon. They
load effortlessly down the Musketoon barrel with only minor effort required but took more effort to load in the 2 band.
Both guns shoot well with patched round ball so not too bothered at the moment but certainly this mould seems heavy at 572
grns compared to the usual 530 grn. I tried upping the load in increments of 5 grns between 50 and 80 grns with the 2 band
and it made no difference other than felt recoil started rattling the teeth at 80. Tim
Morning tac. 2 to 3" at 50m. Id be glad to just hit the target at the moment.!!!

[steve medlock]

If you pm me your address Tim, I'll put a few in the post. If they don't work for you either, then the problem may not be the bullets.

Steve.

[tim56]

Hi Steve, pm sent. Tim

[tim56]

Many Thanks Steve, what lube are you using? Have been out this morning with a couple of mates to fetch one of thems new rifle from Chartris so called
in on another shop near Warboys to have a butchers and what do i spot but a brand new Lyman 577611 mold. Half the price iv seen on the web so sorted.
Have made some up this afternoon so good to go tomorrow. Iv only got wonderlube to hand but would be interested to know what you folks are using?? Tim

[tacfoley]

Many Thanks Steve, what lube are you using? Have been out this morning with a couple of mates to fetch one of thems new rifle from Chartris so called
in on another shop near Warboys to have a butchers and what do i spot but a brand new Lyman 577611 mold. Half the price iv seen on the web so sorted.
Have made some up this afternoon so good to go tomorrow. Iv only got wonderlube to hand but would be interested to know what you folks are using?? Tim

Since the late 1970's I've been using an emulsified hand/skin cream called E45 - I've mentioned it here about 300,000,000 times, but I guess that you somehow missed it.

Being water-based, it not only takes all the crud with it, but washes away easily at the end of the day. I use this when I run out of my more usual ALOX. I really can't be assed to make up my usual gunk, a 50/50 mix of beeswax and neetsfoot oil that sets semi-hard.

To be useable in the Musketoon, the bullet needs to be 1 or 2 thou undersized, so that it loads with thumb-pressure hence the instruction 'thumb a 535gr Minié bullet into the muzzle...'

However, I'm prepared to be corrected, even after shooting my Musketoon since 1976 or so.

tac

[tim56]

Not missed the E45 tip tac, just thought the 577 minnie would want something a bit thicker to fill the grooves. Tried E45 in the .45 Ruger old army
revolver as an over ball lube and it worked ok. The 577 with 60grns of powder under a 530 grn bullet with lube grooves ?? If your telling me you
use it in your musketoon too when you run out of Alox then I'm quite happy to give it a go. Never tried Alox in a muzzle loader but do use it for
all my hard cast bullets in the .357, .303, 44 and the .45/70s. Got loads of the stuff so do you just tumble lube and leave to dry as per hard cast.?
All the Best, Tim.

[tacfoley]

do you just tumble lube and leave to dry as per hard cast.?
All the Best, Tim.

Yup.

tac

[tim56]

Ah well, looks like I'm fated to not use the minnie. Made some bullets up with the new 577611 mold i bought yesterday and had a few
that Steve sent me plus a small amount of my 575213 moulded ones. Started out with 55 grns of Kranks med powder with Steves
bullets and after 4 shots one tumbled making a lovely bullet shaped hole off to the side of the black. Tried my new bullets and my old
ones and got the same result. Upped the charge to approx 70 grns and got the same results. Tumblers!!
So thats 2 rifles, 3 different bullet molds, different lubes and powder make/amounts. Plan is now to give it another good scrub out
and retry the new bullets with a higher charge from the off and if that don't work, I'm going to stick to Patched BALLS.!! Tim

[tacfoley]

Ah well, looks like I'm fated to not use the minnie. Made some bullets up with the new 577611 mold i bought yesterday and had a few
that Steve sent me plus a small amount of my 575213 moulded ones. Started out with 55 grns of Kranks med powder with Steves
bullets and after 4 shots one tumbled making a lovely bullet shaped hole off to the side of the black. Tried my new bullets and my old
ones and got the same result. Upped the charge to approx 70 grns and got the same results. Tumblers!!
So thats 2 rifles, 3 different bullet molds, different lubes and powder make/amounts. Plan is now to give it another good scrub out
and retry the new bullets with a higher charge from the off and if that don't work, I'm going to stick to Patched BALLS.!! Tim

The Musketoon used TWO loads in service.

1. The issue load of 2.5 drams [68gr] in units where the Mustetoon was carried by Sergeants instead of the line-issue three-band rifled musket.

2. The Hythe School of Musketry recommended a reduced load of either 55gr [Sea Service] or 60gr [land service]. Mine works well with as little as 45gr of FFG, and likes 55gr too.

Most Musketoon like the thin-skirt base that the lighter charge is well able to expand.

TBH it's only here that I've ever heard of anybody shooting RPB in a Musketoon, but if that's what works for you, in spite of the shallow rifling not being designed to shoot such a projectile, you may as well stick to it, since you don't appear to shoot it out to 400 and 600 yd like the MLAGB do.

tac

[tim56]

To be honest tac I'm only shooting round ball due to me not as yet finding a minnie load
that works in my rifle. I had this problem with the 2 band using the heavier thin skirted
bullet with loads ranging from 45grns unto 80grns and so went the way of the round ball
which worked well. Now with the Musketoon I'm having the same problem with my thin
skirt bullet and even using bullets kindly sent to me by Steve which shoot well in his gun.
Cant think of a common possible reason but "Theres an answer to this problem!"
I just aint found it yet. Tim

[acmsarh]

I have a Lee 575 - 470 grain wadcutter minnie mould http://leeprecision.com/mold-575-470-m.html .
I can send you some to try if you want to.

[tim56]

Now that looks interesting!!! pm sent. Tim