T20 66 v NM800 Very first impressions

[TomBettle]

OK, not a scope review, but with a fair bit of discussion over which scope mounted torch and cheap Nightmasters I thought I would post some first impressions.

I've owned a NM800 for quite some time now and whilst I have both IR and white pills for it the only one I ever use is the red pill for lamping rabbits with the torch sat on top of my scope.
The NM800 has been used on either my .22 or .hmr to great effect and with the (diffused compared to white) red led it can pick out eye shine to several hundred yards, clearly ID a fox at about 250 and clearly ID rabbits about 200, maybe a little less.

The scope that I am looking through is ok, but not the finest glass ever, a Nikko Stirling Nighteater 6-24x56.

The Nightmaster is expensive when purchased through the legitimate UK channels, but it is without doubt the best tactical torch for throw, robustness, ease of use and simply how bleeding bright it is.
...or is it?

During a discussion on grey importing Nightmasters on the FAC forum I was made aware of a chap called Ian Sirrell who takes the standard and rather good (but not great) T20 torch and modifies it.
It's not a simple DIY job, but a very professional change to the torch creating a sort of Frankensteins monster of the original whereby he machines out the thread for the original head, bores a new thread and then attaches a HUGE new head with a 66mm convex lens (the convex lens concentrates light throw and is similar to the NM800 only HUGELY bigger).
Ian supplies these torches with IR, White and Red leds and he is also looking in to Green.
He's a jolly decent chap, working on his own and using a lathe to create his monster conversions which he then resells for a very hefty saving of approximately 40% off the cost of a UK bought NM800.
Not only is the lamp a lot less money, but dealing with Ian is a pleasure (not that dealing with Taclight isn't either I hasten to add).
I buggered things up royally when paying for my two T20 66s and had to cancel the Paypal payment and pay by bank transfer. Ian did get frustrated with me, but he was patient and even though he didn't know who the hell I was he bit his tongue and the moment he had cleared funds my shipment was made and before 1pm the next day it arrived.

I ordered 2 of these beasts off of Ian.
One for shooting and the other for use at work aboard our Poole Harbour oil crew transfer boat running around the back of the harbour in the pitch black of night in very narrow, shallow, unlit channels. The idea being that the red led wouldn't kill nightvision like the main searchlight could do and we would use it to pick out the channel markers (red on one side, green on the other).

Last night I was crewing on the boat and as darkness fell I tried the T20 66 for the first time whilst waiting for crew to step aboard from the Furzey Island drilling team.
Hard to tell in the harbour with not much to point at...
I turned the head as this is where I was told you could focus the beam from...
It was VERY stiff and had only a marginal effect on the beam. Eventually I accidentally wound it all the way off and so gave up turning the head.
What I had noticed is that when turning the head, it was so stiff that the central shaft would come unscrewed occasionally.
I took a look at this central shaft. A big fat O-ring sealed the front of the shaft where it scews into the head. When it came loose, the O-ring lost its seal which couldn't be a good thing, but I did spot that as you unwound and rewound the central shaft you got a MAJOR change in the beam.
I am fairly sure this is not the correct way to focus the torch, but by eck it made a difference.
By winding the beam all the way out and then back about one turn you got a pinpoint focused beam that clearly light up the shape of the led on trees about 100 yards away with a square of about 1m and a gentle spill around it of about another metre. Shining this out across the harbour I could pick out reflective tape on the unlit channel markers (two stripes for port, one stripe for starboard) for way beyond 800 metres and I could just about see the faded markers themselves out to about 300m. Holding the torch up against land based objects I could get a reflection on trees a good 800 metres away, albeit a fairly dim one, BUT do remember this is a red led, not a laser and not the usually far brighter white light.
Once we headed off from Furzey Island and made our way into the inky darkness it soon became apparent we had a bit of an issue. Yes the red light did protect night vision brilliantly and yes, in theory you could tell port from starboard by the number of reflective stripes, but the channel is so windy you couldn't tell if you were looking at the closest marker or one a turn or two beyond. The next issue was that with the beam so concentrated it was very bright indeed and made all markers look red... even the green ones which posed something of a navigation hazard! :-)

I recognise that I was doing something a little wrong in unwinding the shaft to focus the beam so maybe I need to fiddle around some more with the torch head. It just seems very stiff.
In theory as a stand alone torch when pitted against the NM800 red led for red led the T20 66 isn't actually quite as bright, but the NM800 doesn't focus the red too well (if at all) so you have one beam setting and one beam setting only.
For most rimfire ranges the T20 66 will be a superb choice and if the beam can be focused more appropriately (I need to find out how) will really benefit shooters when peering way WAY into the distance.

So my conclusion after one evening - on a boat, not shooting - with the T20 66 is that its bloody brilliant, but not perfect. Red v Red against the claimed very best it isn't as bright, but is perhaps somewhat more versatile as it can throw an incredible distance once you get to grips with focus.

Attached are two pictures taken once I got home in my bottom paddock.
The two torches are side by side sat on top of pile of sand. The slight shadow at the bottom of both beams is from the sand, sorry.
The first picture is both the beams pretty much as you would have them set on top of your rifle to give you a modicum of spill for spotting and for shooting out to say, 150 yards. The beams are focussing on the grass at no more than about 20 yards range.
The second picture shows you the focused beam of the T20 66 on the hedges at the far side of the paddock, maybe 50 yards away.

Not a scientific test and clearly I need to learn to use the T20 66 more effectively, but a very good start.

I'd love to hear other peoples comparisons and results. Especially using the other drop in leds.

Tom

http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/TomBettle1/media/photo1_zpsbc30a14e.jpg.html?filters[user]=137879737&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=1#/user/TomBettle1/media/photo1_zpsbc30a14e.jpg.html?filters%5Buser%5D=1378 79737&filters%5Brecent%5D=1&sort=1&o=1&_suid=13820 00022895013760061296196446

http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/To...96924827600558

[sunndog]

ayup tom, nice write up there mate

i can add a bit of info about your focus issue
the head of the torch has its own focusing adjustment, which aint very good...those torch's are designed to use the t20's original focusing threads (the central bit you refer to) but it shouldn't screw off completely

what you should do is screw the central bit as far out as it will go (so the torch is at it longest) then fine tune with the head adjustment until its as you like it, you shouldn't need to touch the head again after that. i don't like to see the lines of the led. some people do

incase you were wondering. i have no involment in ian's business. all it is is that head and torch combo was originally my baby and ian has co-opted it to sell and put his own stamp on

also i cant comment much on the visible light versions as my own are all infra red

[TomBettle]

ayup tom, nice write up there mate

i can add a bit of info about your focus issue
the head of the torch has its own focusing adjustment, which aint very good...those torch's are designed to use the t20's original focusing threads (the central bit you refer to) but it shouldn't screw off completely

what you should do is screw the central bit as far out as it will go (so the torch is at it longest) then fine tune with the head adjustment until its as you like it, you shouldn't need to touch the head again after that. i don't like to see the lines of the led. some people do

incase you were wondering. i have no involment in ian's business. all it is is that head and torch combo was originally my baby and ian has co-opted it to sell and put his own stamp on

also i cant comment much on the visible light versions as my own are all infra red

Thanks Sunndog
I hope the review came across positively for both torches as I think they are both excellent.
I'll have a fiddle with the focus of the T20 66 tonight.
Thing is, I really liked the ability to readily adjust it... eg: You know there is something way out beyond normal range, but can't quite see it through the scope due to the darkness. The ability to reach out with a brighter piercing light for that long distance look and then wind back in to normal range I can see as being exceptionally useful.

I'll keep fiddling.

[jackal1]

For a true comparison you might like to test it against the x searcher which is also a 66mm head the same as the t20 66. I would expect the T20 66 to be better than a n/m 800 which only has a 50mm head but apparently not.

[TomBettle]

Just had another fiddle based on Sunndog's focusing tips and WOW!

Once you learn how to get the best compromise of throw versus spill for spotting it is incredible.
Perhaps not quite as bright as the nm800, but it will see a LOT further once you have tuned it.

What a great little torch.

[fizzbangwhallop]

Nice write up Tom......

Now you've got the bug you might try another of Sunndogs innovations ...... the "Sunnranger" which is also based onthe T20.

It's all in the illumination section over here http://www.nightvisionforumuk.com/vi...anger&start=70

The serious stuff starts around page 6..... and there are other subsequent threads.

Cheers

Fizz

[sunndog]

Just had another fiddle based on Sunndog's focusing tips and WOW!

Once you learn how to get the best compromise of throw versus spill for spotting it is incredible.
Perhaps not quite as bright as the nm800, but it will see a LOT further once you have tuned it.

What a great little torch.

the torch gurus would bollock me for saying a particular torch is "brighter" than another because it throws further. but sod it if i can see further then its brighter
these torch's are "throwers" and are best suited to rifle mounting because the bigger lens focus's the produced light more and thus "throws" further, but over a smaller area

jakel1, i can only speak for the infra red versions of these torch's. as i'm not interested in visible light at all
for throw ian's t66 i.r is far better than a nm800 with single or double battery and it will beat an xsearcher with a single battery. an xsearcher with double battery has the same output as a t66 with single battery

again all that was for the infra red versions and based on throw rather than area illumination


fizz, have you tried your red xpe sunnranger against a red xpe 66mm aspheric?

[fizzbangwhallop]

fizz, have you tried your red xpe sunnranger against a red xpe 66mm aspheric?

Not as yet.... I've only got an Oslon Black red led in a single battery Sunnranger with the 1050mAh driver in it..... I did try a 2 battery driver but as this only gives 1000mAh (I think) it was actually not quite as good as the single battery jobbie. As it is, it's tighter and consequently brighter than the 2 battery NM800 red.... the beam is around a quarter of the size.

I've got a bit of credit with Ian so I need to get back to him and get couple of red XPE's ordered, one for the existing single battery Sunnranger and another in a double battery T20........ the 3 I've had on order since 7 September finally turned up today. Yeeeeeee Ha!

My Crelant 66mm heads got sent up to Ian in p'ex against something else.

If the red xpe gives the expected improvement over the Oslon Black it'll definitely be a NM killer. Especially on the Sunnranger. and I'll be a happy badger!

atb

Fizz