unsporting behaviour spoiling our 10m open events.

[RobinC]

I'm very pro international shooting, I've suported it for 40 years, I shoot (for fun & not well) air rifle, but do a lot of air rifle coaching, and my own proper disciplines are 50 mt and 300mt prone, but I have seen it go from ISU to UIT, and now the ISSF which cares not a jot for grass roots, and no its not the NSRA's problem or fault in the UK, but the UK infuriating ones are the British led clique that is manic that the new rules must be enforced ( and are) in the UK when most of the rest of Europe has said , "now hold on this is stupid".

I was one of those that canvassed John Lloyd (NSRA chairman of the air committee) last year to keep the 2013 air meeting to pre 2013 rules and to his credit he sensibly did, but he got a lot of stick in many circles for doing so, but if not 70% of the rifle entry would have failed EC! If they insist on 2013 clothing rules regardless of class this year (I'm uging him again that it will only be for Championship shooters not those shooting agregates) then the entry will crash, our club rifle entry will crash from 6 to one! All young new shooters using club kit who will not enter as the kit is pre 2013.
The NSRA live in the past as do most smallbore clubs, and the ISSF is intent on killing the grass roots being led by the nose for the financial carrot of the Olympics, a money making venture that masquerades as sport.
Thats my last comment on this thread, I'm now off to relax and shoot a 50 mt english match, the pleasures of being retired!
Good shooting

[mikec4]

..... and the ISSF is intent on killing the grass roots being led by the nose for the financial carrot of the Olympics, a money making venture that masquerades as sport.

A very good point and perhaps a reason that the UK was under represented at our home Olympics last year in air weapon disciplines.

Something to do with raising qualification scores unilaterally for 10m pistol, I believe......

[Hemmers]

I'm very pro international shooting, I've suported it for 40 years, I shoot (for fun & not well) air rifle, but do a lot of air rifle coaching, and my own proper disciplines are 50 mt and 300mt prone, but I have seen it go from ISU to UIT, and now the ISSF which cares not a jot for grass roots, and no its not the NSRA's problem or fault in the UK, but the UK infuriating ones are the British led clique that is manic that the new rules must be enforced ( and are) in the UK when most of the rest of Europe has said , "now hold on this is stupid".

If it's not the NSRA's problem then who's is it? British Shooting's I guess, but that's not their mandate - their job is to worry about funding the GB squad, not the ladder that gets there.
The visibility of the sport is influenced by it's performance at the Olympics, and the presence at the Olympics is a crucial go-to for those faced with claims that "shooting isn't really a sport". These things don't exist in isolation, it's all interrelated, even if the ISSF don't deign to lower their view as far as the grassroots.

It's like the FA using a 5-a-side league to select players for the World Cup team - the dynamics and tactics of 5-a-side and 11-a-side games are substantially different.

At the end of the day, when all the flagship cartridge rifle events are run to Dewar rules (Bisley, Scottish, Roberts, Eley Postal, BUCS), there is no incentive for clubs to trade in their correx target frames (free from your local estate agent, slightly used) and paper targets for either Gehrmann boxes or expensive electronics. Why would you? "Only people that need electronics are those with aspirations to shoot at the Olympics". Wrong, but a pervasive view nonetheless, that is best challenged by some (not all) of our domestic shoots putting greater emphasis on ISSF shoots, instead of viewing them as an also-ran sideshow.

That's something only the NSRA can change. Because it's their show.

[terencefw]

eh! ooo! eek! all this has gone way over me ed! listen you lot! all i want to do is turn up at a 10m open, shoot and go home knowing that in my class I competed against others of a similar standing ( winning or losing it matters not!) and had a good time. now i find my state of the art feinwerkbau 700 is owned by a total neanderthal

[Neil-Carter]

[The NSRA live in the past as do most smallbore clubs,

I would say that the NSRA are very heavily influenced by the past and in some ways held back by it. However, there are many nsra members who are very vocal about keeping things the way they were in the 60's and 70's and as these people campaign and put forward their views very forcefully, they tend to be influential. I would say that some in the nsra are trying to move the sport forwards and help out grass roots clubs and shooter but it is a long hard journey for the reformers.]

and the ISSF is intent on killing the grass roots being led by the nose for the financial carrot of the Olympics, a money making venture that masquerades as sport.

I don't think the issf is actively trying to kill off grass roots shooting - I think what's killing the sport is the over vigorous enforcement of elite level rules and regulations on developing shooters. Lets face it, outside of X class, does it really matter how stiff your shoes are, if you wear jeans or what your scores are at the decimal point level.

If we are going to get anyone to Olympic level we need a huge amount of grass levels shooters which we simply will not get if they have to comply with Olympic level regulations in their local clubs and competitions.
]

[Powderfinger]

Well said.

The rules about fripperies such as jeans, shoes, seams in your jacket, "strimmer line" breech flags and cylinder age are causing problems at open shoots.

They add expense and uncertainty.

I don't shoot smallbore prone so I cannot comment on what problems exist in that discipline but in 10-metre Air shooting the pettiness of the ISSF rules seems to be a problem.

[RobinC]

Neil and Powderfinger
Thats exactly the point I'm trying to make, we as a club have begged, borowed, and scrimped to raise money to get kit to supply to new shooters, these clothing rule changes have at a stroke made much of it non compliant and also killed the route of cheap second hand kit for begginers as its no point buying it as much of it is is now illegal. Yes, I want international shooting to progress, but by this action the ISSF have seriously hampered the grass roots of the sport. And yes much of the new rules also impact those who wish to shoot international smallbore.
It cost us £100 to have just my wifes jacket altered to the new rules as the seam was not to the new ISSF rules, it offered no advantage how it was, the change was just on a whim of a jobsworth, a man who does not or has ever shot rifle! The change was not even discussed by the ISSF athletes committee, they found out as we did when it was announced.
Those of you that know my wife (look for the short blonde lady in the pink and purple shooting suit at the British Airgun), she will show you an example of British jobsworth which she carries in her shooting bag. Her jacket had been used in matches in Britain, Holland, Germany, and Austria, last year the jacket was failed at the ESSU championships where she was shooting prone. To pass we had to cut a sliver of leather 1 mm wide and 20 mm long from the top corner of the pocket!!!!! She now carries it as a symbol of "only in Britain!"
Last year at the British Airgun on the Friday, as coach for our club I spent several hours helping before we got three new shooters through Equipment control, two were teenagers shooting classes C and D, due to the massive queue's John Lloyd (NSRA) wisely eventualy scrapped clothing EC on aggregate only shooters, and I hope he does the same this year otherwise we will not be able to enter new shooters using older club kit.
This really is my last post on this thread!!!