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Thread: Startup advice please....

  1. #1
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    Startup advice please....

    Hi Guys, just taken the plunge and bought myself a s/s Ruger Old Army - now all I need is some advice on how to get started
    I've read a lot, but there seems to be a lot of different ways to go about this. A list of the basics I need to buy would be helpful - I haven't gone for an explosives license so I'll be using Pyrodex or Triple7.
    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    The very first thing you'll need to get is the Lyman Black Powder Handbook - never been a better publication printed, IMHO. Being a 'book' it doesn't need turning on or charging up when you need to use it. Simply place it on a flat surface, or even hold it in one hand, and physically 'open' it using one hand. It doesn't go blue on you, suffer power outages either, and once you've bought it, you don't need to continually 'update' it. Great idea - might even catch on....

    Next -

    1. Unless you are rich, you are going to need to cast your own ball - get a Lee .457 mould- made for the ROA.

    2. A powder meaure - we don't load directly into the chamber of ANY BP firearm for safety reasons, BTW, but use plastic phials containing your pre-measured charges. So, a powder flask with a suitable nozzle that you can trim to suit the charge you end up with - whatever that is, or a set of powder scales. Personally, I have a volumetric powder measure made for BP - non-ferrous brass and alloy, but that's just me, and make up a few dozen charges afore I go shooting. My ROA likes 26gr of Pyrodex P - same for Triple 7, strangely enuff. So it goes - powder flask to phial - phial to chamber. If you have a loading stand on which you can place the removed cylinder, OTOH, you might use a flask directly into it - that IS permitted. I don't, so I don't.

    3. Some kind of gloop to go over the end of the chamber to keep the fouling soft. I've used a commercial preparation from Boots called E45 for 30+ years - being an emulsion, it just washes away, taking the fouling with it. Others use one kind of grease - water-pump grease or similar. Do NOT use any kind of hydro-carbon-base automotive grease - the heat and pressure cooks it into an almost rock-like substance that wil take hard work to remove. On the other paw, you might prefer to use wads - they are costy here in UK, but there's another thread here about how to make your own. The original guns used no wads, nor do I. The idea is to use a load, or a filler of some kind on top of the powder load, to bring the ball level with the mouth of the chamber. Different folks use use different fillers - some use cous-cous, other use semolina [not mixed up, just in case you were wondering]. The load that I shoot brings the ball almost level with the mouth of the chamber - good enuff for me.

    4. Some kind of light yellow grease for the cylinder base pin - that's the part on which the cylinder rotates.

    5. Percussion caps - #10 or #11, depending on the state of the nipples. Get RWS Hot if you can - they are better for the substitute propellants that you say that you will be using. Simple reason is that BP goes off at around 315-340F - but Pyrodex P [P for pistol] needs over 600F - I'll let you guess what Triple 7 needs for reliable ignition.

    6. Hot water to clean up afterwards - a dishwasher is great if you have electricity - many folks these days do not.

    More from others.....including casting your own.

    I'm off shooting.

    tac

  3. #3
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    no need to add....tac summed it up perfectly

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    tac forgot to mention safety glasses and baby/hand wipes (it gits messy )
    i tired making some black powder cartridges http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC5mwOJ2Khg they work very well especially if its a bit breezy on the range, i used fag papers and fine semolina as a filler, did not foul as much as normal the capping system is air pipe from a fish tank, a number a black powder shooters have said its the best capping tool they have ever used (and the cheapest)
    if im loading without the paper carts i use porridge oats
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by airgunnut View Post
    tac forgot to mention safety glasses and baby/hand wipes (it gits messy )
    i tired making some black powder cartridges http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC5mwOJ2Khg they work very well especially if its a bit breezy on the range, i used fag papers and fine semolina as a filler, did not foul as much as normal the capping system is air pipe from a fish tank, a number a black powder shooters have said its the best capping tool they have ever used (and the cheapest)
    if im loading without the paper carts i use porridge oats
    Yeah. Well..... no excuse, really - I guess it's SOOO automatic that I forgot to mention them.

    But while we are the subject of range safety and personal safety - do NOT put ANYTHING alongside or in front of the cylinder while shooting. Drape a piece of cloth or paper over the gun and shoot it, and you'll see why this is not a good plan.

    Gun video, BTW, agn! I 'liked' it>

    tac

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    Out of all the black powder videos ive seen on utube, that is one of the most practical and sensible
    "Men occasionally stumble on the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened" Winston Churchill
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  7. #7
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    thats a good link,may have a go,

  8. #8
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    i tried it with conical like in the vid, i also had a go with ball, put the ball on the end of the paper tube and add a drop of super glue (it will spread around the ball paper joint) the thing is that some one made the conical's and the balls for me and lubed then with lee alox (lee had an advert of a bullet coated with alox the other side of the bullet was been melted with a blow torch) super glue will stick to alox and the alox really does hang on to the bullet as well as lee says!!
    "Men occasionally stumble on the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened" Winston Churchill
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  9. #9
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    Thanks, that's a real help ....seems to be a pretty comprehensive description

    ...a couple of points (I'm sure there will be more!):

    1. I've got a powder flask that came with the ROA (though I don't know how much it measures), could you recommend a suitable powder measure (I can't seem to find anything)? (I have got digital scales that I use for reloading, and this looks useful http://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm)

    1. Fillers - once you've decided on a powder charge, how do you know how much filler to add to just leave enough room for the ball? (Does the ball compress the powder & filler?)

    2. I like the idea of pre-prepared phials for powder charges, found these on e/bay (item no. 121036930043) - is this the right sort of thing? (sorry, but it wouldn't let me use a link)

    3. Pyrodex P or Triple Seven, which would be best to start with?

    (btw, although I've bought the gun, I've got time to shop as it's still at the dealer while I wait for a variation to come through )

  10. #10
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    in my roger & Spencer 44 i use 20 grains of fine black, then oats to fill the cylinder then ball, when pressed in the ball is a few will below mm the cylinder surface
    semolina does not compress that much so its trial and error (your cylinder is a different size to the one in my R & S)
    try these http://www.hsconline.co.uk/blue-plastic-box-with-50xS1 they hold about 35 grains i went with glass as plastic tends to go black with the dust from the powder
    Last edited by airgunnut; 07-02-2014 at 09:44 AM.
    "Men occasionally stumble on the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened" Winston Churchill
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  11. #11
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    1. It is usual to adjust the length of the spout on the flask (cut or file it) to deliver the desired powder charge. Of course you first have to know what the desired charge is. Determine this by weighing charges into vials, and experimenting until you find a charge which works for you. Then you can adjust the spout to deliver it. Actually I don't bother with the flask at all. MLAIC, MLAGB both forbid charging of guns directly from a flask as there is a risk of an ember in the chamber setting it off. (I know a chap who lost the tip of his trigger finger when his tiny priming flask flask blew up while charging the flash pan of a matchlock). So if you are anyway going to use vials, then why not simply weigh up all your charges at home and forget the flask? I use a Lee Perfect powder measure to throw the charge. This said, I see plenty of folk who do charge directly from a flask, and I also see plenty who fill vials from a flask on the range. Whatever works for you.

    2. It's a matter of experimentation to find the amount of filler. What you are trying to achieve is to get the ball just below the mouth of the chamber when the charge is light-to-medium compressed. Having worked out how much by trial and error for one particular BP charge, you can quickly work out how much to adjust the filler for different BP charges. I weigh out filler into vials as well - it makes loading on the range faster and simpler, but it is acceptable (in fact more common as well) to dispense filler from a flask directly into the chamber. Suggest that you start with too little filler and work up to it. Too much means that the ball will be proud of the chamber mouth and then you can't rotate the cylinder - and it is a struggle to remove it.

    By weighing out both BP and filler into (separate) vials, it is easy to take a variety of loads with you to test in a single session.

    3. "121036930043" These look a bit expensive to me, but that is the king of thing. Kranks do a kit. There are other styles of vial on the bay.

    4. Don't like Pyrodex - I had problematic ignition with light charges (hang fires). Never tried 777. Once you try BP you will not want to use substitutes.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by robpark View Post
    (btw, although I've bought the gun, I've got time to shop as it's still at the dealer while I wait for a variation to come through )
    A bit like in the Republic of Ireland. Hope it works out for you.

    tac

  13. #13
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    If you use some filler other than oats, you could use a cut down cartrige case (at your club there might be some one with a cartrige gun with some old or split cases you could have,) find the amount of filler you need then cut the case to size
    With regards to flasks a friend uses a tube flask, he drilled holes in the base (filling) cap and covered the holes with duct tape so if some how an ember or spark did get in and ignite the powder, it would blow through the weakest point (the tape) and hopefully prevent the flask from becoming a hand granade
    Last edited by airgunnut; 07-02-2014 at 12:52 PM.
    "Men occasionally stumble on the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened" Winston Churchill
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by airgunnut View Post
    i tried it with conical like in the vid, i also had a go with ball, put the ball on the end of the paper tube and add a drop of super glue (it will spread around the ball paper joint) the thing is that some one made the conical's and the balls for me and lubed then with lee alox (lee had an advert of a bullet coated with alox the other side of the bullet was been melted with a blow torch) super glue will stick to alox and the alox really does hang on to the bullet as well as lee says!!
    did you find any diff from using conical vs ball ?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtpkeeper View Post
    did you find any diff from using conical vs ball ?
    Not really, but then I've not really had the chance to do any serious testing (problems with noise at the club)
    "Men occasionally stumble on the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened" Winston Churchill
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