Ruger Old Army Westlake Convesion loads needed

[harricook]

Evening All !

I’ve just taken a gun onto my FAC that I gave my Father many years back
It’s a ROA .45 in stainless BP with a second/additional/spare nitro cylinder from Messrs Westlake.

Dad passed away and trouble is I have NO idea what loads or powders Dad was using in the nitro cylinder.

If anyone that has same and has shot it with success, could give me a conservative start load - and which bullet or ball I would appreciate it !!
It uses standard #209 shotgun primers

Cheers All - appreciate your input !!

R

[Abasmajor]

Hello,
I have an early Ruger Old Army nitro conversion revolver (not Westlake) and a newly purchased Uberti Remington 1858 NMA .44 nitro conversion revolver from Anvil Conversions. The recommended max load for the Remington is 4.5 grns of Herco or similar slow burning, large flake powder such as Blue Dot or Unique. Use of a large flake powder is essential to ensure that none leaks through the flash hole when the cylinder is in the upright position during loading. No wads or filler are permitted and although you could shoot conical bullets, I would recommend you use .457 pure lead round balls as I have not found conical bullets to be any more accurate and can be difficult to seat exactly central in the chamber. To be honest, I have not had consistently reliable results with nitro in the Ruger, whereas the Remington is both reliable and accurate. This may be due to these very small charges in the larger chambers of the Ruger resulting in inconsistent ignition. I have tried different powders, powder weights and primers without much success. I now use 13 grns by WEIGHT not VOLUME of Hodgdon 777 FFFG black powder substitute in the Ruger which now shoots as reliably and accurately as the Remington. The use of 209 shotgun powders instead of the usual No 11 percussion caps makes fitting them easier with the added advantage that they are also cheaper to purchase. As the Ruger is made in stainless steel, the clean-up after use is almost as easy as with nitro, but must be completed almost immediately after use and of course most clubs will not permit the use of anything other that nitro powders on their indoor ranges.

So to sum up, I would recommend you start with 3.5 grns of Herco and a .457 pure lead ball working up to a maximum 0f 4.5 grns. A higher charge would only result in a diminishing return with higher recoil and poorer accuracy.

Hope this helps and be sure to let us know how you get on with your new acquisition.

Regards
Brian

[tacfoley]

Great post for a gun that I have never ever seen, no, make that, heard of. It must have cost a good deal of money back when it was done. I'd like to see a Youtube video of it in action, if you are ever tempted.

[harricook]

Bonjour TAC
we’ve not spoken in years since I shifted to Alberta I think
How the devil are you
Is your reply for me or Abasmajor ?
Cheers
Roy

[Abasmajor]

I forgot to add a bit about lubrication. All you need to do is place the balls in a plastic lunchbox containing a small drop of Lee Alox lubricant and shake vigorously for a couple of minutes. Remove the balls and place on a piece of greaseproof paper overnight. As there is no need to place grease on the top of each of the chambers to prevent 'flashover' as is the case with black powder, this provides the necessary lubrication without the mess.
Brian

[harricook]

Hello,


So to sum up, I would recommend you start with 3.5 grns of Herco and a .457 pure lead ball working up to a maximum 0f 4.5 grns. A higher charge would only result in a diminishing return with higher recoil and poorer accuracy.

Hope this helps and be sure to let us know how you get on with your new acquisition.

Regards
Brian

Cheers got your input Brian

Now to try and track down some ‘flaky Herco’ !!

R

[tacfoley]

Alox is not a very good choice for BP, while there is a fair amount of discussion about BP lubes, the one thing that is not debated much is that petroleum-based lubes are not as effective as non-petroleum based lubes. BP lubes need to lube not just the bullet/ball, but keep the fouling soft too. If you do a quick search on BP lubes, you can find several good commercially made ones, or if you like, you can make your own quite easily.

And yes, many years ago I tried lubing ball with Alox when I had nothing else.

After twelve shots I carried on with 'nothing else' - the sticky black goo proved VERY difficult to remove, especially after it had dried out in the heat of shooting.

[pnuk]

... but this is for nitro not BP so as I understand it Alox should be fine.

The advice you’ve had above is sound. I’m not sure if Herco is hard to obtain as it was a few years ago. If it is then Alan Westlake recommended Blue Dot as an alternative.

I would call him and ask his advice to start with if you haven’t already.

The one thing I would caution is that I have heard a number of shooters say ‘well I know the load I used to use in my .357 cartridge revolver, so I’ll just use the same in my .357 nitro revolver’
I checked with Westlake on this one and the way he explained it is that because you are pushing a projectile that has been pushed (relatively tightly) into a steel (relatively hard) cylinder, you need a slower push to make it leave that cylinder than you would need to make a bullet leave a brass (relatively soft) cartridge case. Therefore, using loads of relatively fast pistol powders can make for dangerously high pressures.

[harricook]

Hi PNUK

Thanks for the reply

I did just get a response back from Alan strangely enough.

His comment was ‘herco or other big flake powder’ and ‘once you have the powder use the manufacturers recommended loads for S&W 44 spl & lead bullet’ and start very low if using ball.

No recommendations for projectile were given.

[AlBur]

Nitro cylinder imported for ROA from USA by Bob Dunkley many years ago. Proofed at Birmingham proof house.
Stamped on the cylinder in between the proof marks "Max. service 4.3 grains Allt Unique. 200 grain RNL bullet"

Al

[harricook]

Nitro cylinder imported for ROA from USA by Bob Dunkley many years ago. Proofed at Birmingham proof house.
Stamped on the cylinder in between the proof marks "Max. service 4.3 grains Allt Unique. 200 grain RNL bullet"

Al

Cheers Al !!

Regards

Roy