JSB Exact v Air Arms Diablo Field

[zooma]

Apologies in advance if this subject has been covered previously - but I have not seen the answer anywhere - so here goes!

I have been target shooting flat nosed pellets for many years, but shooting with round nosed pellets is something new for me to play with in my "new to me" Air Arms EV2 and I have two types of pellet made by the same manufacturer (JSB) that look very similar me and I was wondering if they actually were the exact same pellet - but sold under two different names?

The pellets in question are the JSB Exact and the Air Arms Diablo Field.

The weight given for them on both sellers tin lids is 0.547g, but curiously the weight (in grains) that is printed on the Exact tin is is 8.44 grains, whereas on the Diablo Field it is shown as 8.4 grains.

My guess is that these two pellets are the same and that Air Arms have just "rounded down" the weight by a decimal point from 8.44 to 8.4 - but I could be wrong, and as I am aware that some of our BBS members take their pellet specification very seriously - I thought this would be the ideal place to be given the definitive answer.

[Petest]

The batch / die number and head size can make a difference to group sizes in some rifles. I had a great batch of 453 jsb that were fantastic. Used them all, got some more but from a different lot, no where near as good.
The AADF all seem to be pretty consistent. Good accuracy generally.
You need to test some to find out if your barrel is fussy and what it prefers.

[Jesim1]

They are indeed for the same factory, but from different dies.

The way it works is that JSB have say 100 dies as an example, of that 100 dies only AAFD will be made on say 10 of them on a permanent basis, so technically they are more consistent as they are always off the same dies - but you still have a selection of 10 dies, and as the dies wear the characteristics of the pellets will change ever so slightly, and once the dies get replaced due to wear that changes again

So it's a well known fact that different batches from different dies all perform slightly differently, so you get good/bad/average pellets over dozens of different dies and batches - and that changes in each gun also to produce thousands of potential variations - it's a mine field

The same is true of other makers like Daystate Sovereigns, they are basically all the same design, but all different by die and batch number, which even applies to the JSB exact pellets themselves.

Hope that shed some light on things

James

[zooma]

Thanks James - that answers my question completely !

As a matter of interest - who makes the Daystate Sovereign pellets - and are they also marketed and sold under different names as well?

.....dont give up on the 4th Pineapple

[angrybear]

There's a youtube video tour of the JSB factory, & a thread in general about it (use the search to find the thread with the link) close to the end they are asked about the badged pellets, the reply is that they are all made on any one of their usual dies, there is not a specific die for a specific brand, nor is there a different lead mix, the only difference is that if the order is for 10m pellets in .177 then all 10m will be from 1 run on 1 die.

The vid is well worth watching, I bet it's not how you expect a pellet factory to look.

[PhatMan]

Bob,

IIRC, Daystate Sovereigns are JSB Exacts, though I believe some Daystate pellets are now made by Crosman ?

The Daystate Kaisers are H&N FTT, at least the ones I have are

EDIT :

Found the below on the 'other' Forum :

JSB Exact 8.44 grains = AA field = Daystate Sovereign .
H&N FTT = Weihrauch F&T Special (always 4.51mm however) = Webley Accupell FT (always 4.52mm) = Daystate Kaiser
H&N Baracuda Match = Bisley Magnum = Weihrauch magnum (always 4.51MM)
JSB RS =Falcon Accuracy Plus
JSB Express = AA Express= Webley Mosquito
H&N Crow magnum = Bisley Pest control
Crosman Domed = Webley Accupell
Crosman pointed = Webley powapell

Have fun & a good weekend

Best regards

Russ

[zooma]

Bob,

IIRC, Daystate Sovereigns are JSB Exacts, though I believe some Daystate pellets are now made by Crosman ?

The Daystate Kaisers are H&N FTT, at least the ones I have are

EDIT :

Found the below on the 'other' Forum :

JSB Exact 8.44 grains = AA field = Daystate Sovereign .
H&N FTT = Weihrauch F&T Special (always 4.51mm however) = Webley Accupell FT (always 4.52mm) = Daystate Kaiser
H&N Baracuda Match = Bisley Magnum = Weihrauch magnum (always 4.51MM)
JSB RS =Falcon Accuracy Plus
JSB Express = AA Express= Webley Mosquito
H&N Crow magnum = Bisley Pest control
Crosman Domed = Webley Accupell
Crosman pointed = Webley powapell

Have fun & a good weekend

Best regards

Russ

Thanks Russ,

It looks like most of the above named pellets are made by JSB with some made by H&N and a few made by Crossman (presumably in the USA?).

Webley source their pellets from more than one supplier - but don't offer any sizing information (or choice of size of pellet) on their tins - but the .177 pellets often (but not always) come in the .22 size pellet tins!

Re-branding existing pellets can cause some confusion and can also cause some users to think that they have something "different" - when in actual fact the biggest difference is the tin!

Back in the early 70's we used to shoot the Eley Match pellets, and it was always thought that these were made by H&N?

Do you happen to know if the current Eley flat head competition pellets are actually made by Eley here in the UK - or is this just other "branding" exercise?

Enjoy your weekend Russ - it looks like our new MPL postal competition for shooting springers with scopes will be a runner !

Bob.

[zephyr]

I was going to reply “there are are many opinions, often contradictory” but this has been adequately demonstrated by Jesim1 and Angrybear. If you want further proof of this then a search will demonstrate all the conflicting statements.

I could be right or wrong - when I find a batch number that works for me in a particular gun, I buy as many as I can afford to.

[PhatMan]

Bob,

I do not know where the Eley Ventus or Eley Tenex pellets are made, but I do know they have the smallest weight distribution of any target pellet I have measured.

Note : The vintage Eley Match are not bad

Have fun & a good weekend

Best regards

Russ

[RobF]

I believe, but haven't asked directly, that AA Fields are not the same as JSB Exact. Every Field I've seen has a subtly different shape to it than JSB exact. Yet I know that the old Webley Mosquitos in .177 varied die and you could find a correlating shape in JSB Express.

It's moot. In reality there's many dies of JSB Exacts anyway and these can vary in all sorts of ways, dimensionally and shape. So the basic advice is that if you're chasing the nth degree and you're over the moon with the pellets you have, turn the tin over (with the lid on ) and look at the number on the bottom and buy as many of them as you want. The number has to be exactly the same, any deviation can mean a difference. I've only known of 2 people this hasn't worked for and one didn't get the same number and the other who knows. But with the latter I'd say I've felt like batches have 'gone off' yet have found that it's turned out to be the rifle.

I completely ignore the head size. In fact I actively buy batches with odd sizes because they don't get turned over as fast a 4.52 and when I've found a decent batch there's a chance there's some left.

The best batch I have ever had were 4.51 Express. They would and did consistently produce single mm CTC groups at 50m with 10 shots. In fact it was almost a challenge to make them not group.

What I'd say is at 10m forget batch etc. It's pointless. Really it is. Just pick a decent grouping pellet and stick with that. At 25 you'll probably spot the difference between a bad design and a good one but batch isn't important unless you're chasing 1mm bulls in BR. If you're not then don't worry. 40+m is where you'll start to see the difference and at 50m you can tell. But there can be a lot of other things at play here... i just spent a few days testing 25 batches only to find none worked as they should, swapped barrel to a new one and now it is and I've got 25 batches to test again.

Now the geeky stuff is what people like, but don't sweat it. It's all a matter of perspective.

And in all the years I've never been able to make a 'bad' batch as good as a good one with weighing, sizing, etc. Sizing has made the biggest difference, in my walther putting them to 4.48 (not tested against a go-no-go though) helped. In a Daystate it made it worse. But the best batch I just picked up straight from the tin and a lot of times I still do.

[Jesim1]

Bob,

I do not know where the Eley Ventus or Eley Tenex pellets are made, but I do know they have the smallest weight distribution of any target pellet I have measured.

Note : The vintage Eley Match are not bad

Have fun & a good weekend

Best regards

Russ

Great info on the target pellets, regular ones are typically out by around .5 of a gn from min to max, but there can be odd silly ones in there also which are some of the real fliers we all get.

[zooma]

Thanks Russ,

We now have some really good info about the flat head pellets quality variation.

It is interesting to see that the RWS R10 Pistol pellets are at the top of the currently available (and affordable!) listing, whereas the RWS R10 Rifle pellets are nothing like as impressive ! That really is a surprise.

If you ever get time, it would be good to see where the RWS Meisterkugeln Pistol and Rifle types figure on your list as these have been popular and used long before R10 pellets were made (like the Eley Match time period) and currently have a growing reputation.

The RWS Basic pellet is another currently widely used and inexpensive pellet with a growing usage and reputation that is achieving strong results that belie their really cheap price - possibly achieved with a higher tin content?

The old Eley match pellets still hold an impressive position on the "score board" - I still have some unopened tins of these from when I used to shoot them in the '70's - shame they have not been available for so many years!

I never realised that the popular Hobby pellets we're so bad (bottom of your list - and worse than GECO!) as they have been a very popular choice over the years, and seeing the three main JSB flat head match pellets so low on the list is also a surprise!

Thanks for putting in the hours and sharing this information with us.

Have you ever done a similar quality comparison with the round head pellets?

[PhatMan]

Bob, Jesim1,

The field pellets I have assessed.

Have fun & a good weekend

Best regards

Russ

[zooma]

Another massive shock!

Assuming RSD/% refers to the deviation seen between measured examples (?) the JSB quality has some room for improvement .

The two most popular field target pellets JSB Exact and Air Arms Diablo Field are both at the bottom of your tested quality variation list!

Crossman Premier are better (!) and RWS Superdome and RWS Superfield are twice as good!

I think in practice (ie when shot in a good FT air rifle) the JSB and AA pellets would still group better - even though the scientific evidence could suggest differently - but how much better could the JSB pellets be if they had less variation between individual pellets?

[aris]

There is an interesting tour of H&M sport factory

https://youtu.be/3q7glB-J0rA

I know they make pellets for others too.