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Thread: Fas 6004 v 604

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgibbar View Post
    I have seen a few 6004’s through pony club (low use, carefully used) with loose pins, oval pin holes that just suggest that the frame metal is just not as good, the triggers are also just not as good. So these 5-6 year old guns are already showing signs of wear whereas 40year old 604’s generally just need a 6 set of seals if not working and maybe a coat of paint if badly worn. The old 604’s definitely had more hand finishing on the internals. Where there are breakages on the 604’s it’s usually the top cover where it sweeps up over the grip and that is usually as a result of being dropped.
    Your observations would tend to suggest (to me at least) that the soft alloy that failed to retain a 3mm sight adjusting screw in the new 6004 that IJ had problems with was not limited to this particular area of the air pistol?

    If a softer alloy has also been used in the main body of the 6004, it would help to explain why the "low milage" 6004 air pistols had "loose pins in oval holes" as they had simply worn away the soft alloy that was used to retain them.

    40 year old 604 air pistols will probably have had a lot more use than the pony club 6004 air pistols that you mention here and many may well not have had such careful use either - but they are not known for having sloppy pins in oval pin holes - probably because the alloy used to cast the parts from was harder?

    Let's hope the manufacturers of the 6004 air pistol are now using a harder alloy that will resist wear better as well are correcting any other defects that have contributed (over a fairly lengthy period of time) to give this fine looking air pistol such a poor reputation.

    I have always said that I really like this neat looking and nicely finished air pistol, and if I could be certain that the manufacturer has corrected its well know and well documented faults, I would still most certainly like to buy a new one. I would actually be surprised if they had not taken any notice (if they want to stay in business) !
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by I. J. View Post
    Well, thats the final comment and end of this subject for me - and I didn't get called once!
    Hello once!
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  3. #18
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    I had a 604 years ago, that's why I bought a 6004, it was supposed to be an updated 604. Mine went in the bin. Tiny steel screws into soft aluminium, glass rear sights etc. The final nail in the coffin was the bracket that holds the barrel in the over- lever. It kept coming loose and letting the barrel move back failing to seal against the breech seal.
    Nipped it up a few times and the tiny bolts stripped. There's not enough metal to drill out and re-tap for a bigger bolt so it was a write off.
    Never had a problem with the old 604.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by zooma View Post
    Hello once!


    Quote Originally Posted by brucieboy View Post
    I had a 604 years ago, that's why I bought a 6004, it was supposed to be an updated 604. Mine went in the bin. Tiny steel screws into soft aluminium, glass rear sights etc. The final nail in the coffin was the bracket that holds the barrel in the over- lever. It kept coming loose and letting the barrel move back failing to seal against the breech seal.
    Nipped it up a few times and the tiny bolts stripped. There's not enough metal to drill out and re-tap for a bigger bolt so it was a write off.
    Never had a problem with the old 604.
    So another victim of tiny screws into soft aluminium.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by zooma View Post
    The 6004 is not made by the same company using the same parts and tooling as the 604.
    I've just ordered a spare seal set for my 6004 and was assured that they were identical to the 604.
    I'm curious about this rear sight issue.
    This seems to be the main grudge against the 6004.
    Nothing has been mentioned about its overall reliability and accuracy and these are the things that interest me.
    I suspect Candle man is correct.
    The "new inferior to old" is an argument prevalent in many fields, especially motoring and it's usually unfounded.
    I've been using my 6004 for quite a while now and have not experienced one single issue.
    It certainly performs just as well as the 604 I owned in the late 80s.
    The rear sight on mine has undergone a series of adjustments without issue.
    Honestly I didn't mean to open a can of worms here and had no idea of the hostility I was going to be bombarded with simply for expressing an opinion.
    Based on my actual experience of owning and using this great pistol I'd say its equal to its predecessor in every way and is still the great target pistol it once was.
    I suspect the people who are going to spit nails at me for daring to suggest that do not have any ownership experience themselves.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyals View Post
    I've just ordered a spare seal set for my 6004 and was assured that they were identical to the 604.
    I'm curious about this rear sight issue.
    This seems to be the main grudge against the 6004.
    Nothing has been mentioned about its overall reliability and accuracy and these are the things that interest me.
    I suspect Candle man is correct.
    The "new inferior to old" is an argument prevalent in many fields, especially motoring and it's usually unfounded.
    I've been using my 6004 for quite a while now and have not experienced one single issue.
    It certainly performs just as well as the 604 I owned in the late 80s.
    The rear sight on mine has undergone a series of adjustments without issue.
    Honestly I didn't mean to open a can of worms here and had no idea of the hostility I was going to be bombarded with simply for expressing an opinion.
    Based on my actual experience of owning and using this great pistol I'd say its equal to its predecessor in every way and is still the great target pistol it once was.
    I suspect the people who are going to spit nails at me for daring to suggest that do not have any ownership experience themselves.


    When people have spent good money and found that their purchase was not as good as they hoped it would be, it is not surprising that they have a "grudge" or that they may wish to share their own experience to try to help other BBS members from suffering the same disappointment and possible financial loss.

    Personally, I very much doubt that anyone on here would give any credibility to the "new inferior to old" argument just for the sake of it, and believe those that have been disappointed with their 6004 air pistols have a genuine and factual reason for saying so.

    I am disappointed that anyone should be accused of BS for reporting their findings regarding their ownership experience with the 6004 air pistol. This is as bad as suggesting that they are inventing problems that don't exist.

    It is not only the rear sight that has caused previous (and current) owners some concern. Premature "wear and tear" and failings associated with an unsuitable quality alloy are also a real concern.

    Your personal experience with your own 6004 does tend to be at odds with most other 6004 owners who have not enjoyed such a good ownership experience, but it is genuinely good to hear from a long term user/owner who actually is happy with his purchase. How many years have you owned your 6004, and was it bought brand new or used?

    The reason for asking this is because if yours is a more recently manufactured 6004, it would give some hope to the rest of us that would still like to buy one, as it would suggest that some (or all) of the problems that others have experienced may have been resolved.

    Sharing the same seal kits is a bonus for those of us that may like to own the 6004 (and the 604) in the future, but it does not confirm that both pistols share the same internal parts - only that the sizes of the seals used in both may be the same?
    Last edited by zooma; 23-04-2021 at 06:19 PM.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyals View Post

    Nothing has been mentioned about its overall reliability and accuracy and these are the things that interest me.
    You should read the other contributors postings :-


    "I had a 6004 two days before it broke. (the back sight). I took it back to the suppliers and got a refund" IJ


    "I have seen a few 6004’s through pony club (low use, carefully used) with loose pins, oval pin holes that just suggest that the frame metal is just not as good, the triggers are also just not as good. So these 5-6 year old guns are already showing signs of wear whereas 40year old 604’s generally just need a 6 set of seals if not working and maybe a coat of paint if badly worn. The old 604’s definitely had more hand finishing on the internals. Where there are breakages on the 604’s it’s usually the top cover where it sweeps up over the grip and that is usually as a result of being dropped." sgibbar


    "Never used a 604, but had shocking experience with a 6004, poor consistency, pellet fussy, poor build quality, replaced it with a Gamo Compact which after spending about 5 on some files, wet&dry and some time to fettle trigger was everything the 6004 should have been for 1/3 of the price" clipper.


    "I had a 604 years ago, that's why I bought a 6004, it was supposed to be an updated 604. Mine went in the bin. Tiny steel screws into soft aluminium, glass rear sights etc. The final nail in the coffin was the bracket that holds the barrel in the over- lever. It kept coming loose and letting the barrel move back failing to seal against the breech seal.
    Nipped it up a few times and the tiny bolts stripped. There's not enough metal to drill out and re-tap for a bigger bolt so it was a write off.
    Never had a problem with the old 604." brusieboy


    If you trawl back through the other 6004 threads that have been in this section previously you may find a few more comments of some interest.


    Hope this helps.
    Rossendale Model Target Club every Tuesday and Thursday evening 7 - 10pm.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by zooma View Post
    You should read the other contributors postings :-


    "I had a 6004 two days before it broke. (the back sight). I took it back to the suppliers and got a refund" IJ


    "I have seen a few 6004’s through pony club (low use, carefully used) with loose pins, oval pin holes that just suggest that the frame metal is just not as good, the triggers are also just not as good. So these 5-6 year old guns are already showing signs of wear whereas 40year old 604’s generally just need a 6 set of seals if not working and maybe a coat of paint if badly worn. The old 604’s definitely had more hand finishing on the internals. Where there are breakages on the 604’s it’s usually the top cover where it sweeps up over the grip and that is usually as a result of being dropped." sgibbar


    "Never used a 604, but had shocking experience with a 6004, poor consistency, pellet fussy, poor build quality, replaced it with a Gamo Compact which after spending about 5 on some files, wet&dry and some time to fettle trigger was everything the 6004 should have been for 1/3 of the price" clipper.


    "I had a 604 years ago, that's why I bought a 6004, it was supposed to be an updated 604. Mine went in the bin. Tiny steel screws into soft aluminium, glass rear sights etc. The final nail in the coffin was the bracket that holds the barrel in the over- lever. It kept coming loose and letting the barrel move back failing to seal against the breech seal.
    Nipped it up a few times and the tiny bolts stripped. There's not enough metal to drill out and re-tap for a bigger bolt so it was a write off.
    Never had a problem with the old 604." brusieboy


    If you trawl back through the other 6004 threads that have been in this section previously you may find a few more comments of some interest.


    Hope this helps.
    Ive searched for these accuracy and reliability issues but can't find anything.
    Could you please provide some links and please don't say, I'm not going to research it for you.
    I have serious doubts about what's being claimed here and would love to see actual evidence.
    I was curious about the claim made by Candle man about the top strap cracking which I noticed you avoided addressing.
    I researched this and found it is true and indeed FAS have redesigned this area
    If something goes wrong with my rear sight at least I still have a pistol to shoot, whereas if that top strap goes I'm stuffed.
    I'm reading a lot of claims here but no verification with evidence.
    Hopefully you'll put that right in your next post although I somehow doubt you can
    In the meantime this is interesting.

    https://www./community/index.php?thr...-strap.340657/

    I can't seem to get the link to work but if you go to the airgun forum and look under pistols you'll see someone posting about "dreaded top frame cracking"

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
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    Quote Originally Posted by zooma View Post
    When people have spent good money and found that their purchase was not as good as they hoped it would be, it is not surprising that they have a "grudge" or that they may wish to share their own experience to try to help other BBS members from suffering the same disappointment and possible financial loss.

    Personally, I very much doubt that anyone on here would give any credibility to the "new inferior to old" argument just for the sake of it, and believe those that have been disappointed with their 6004 air pistols have a genuine and factual reason for saying so.

    I am disappointed that anyone should be accused of BS for reporting their findings regarding their ownership experience with the 6004 air pistol. This is as bad as suggesting that they are inventing problems that don't exist.

    It is not only the rear sight that has caused previous (and current) owners some concern. Premature "wear and tear" and failings associated with an unsuitable quality alloy are also a real concern.

    Your personal experience with your own 6004 does tend to be at odds with most other 6004 owners who have not enjoyed such a good ownership experience, but it is genuinely good to hear from a long term user/owner who actually is happy with his purchase. How many years have you owned your 6004, and was it bought brand new or used?

    The reason for asking this is because if yours is a more recently manufactured 6004, it would give some hope to the rest of us that would still like to buy one, as it would suggest that some (or all) of the problems that others have experienced may have been resolved.

    Sharing the same seal kits is a bonus for those of us that may like to own the 6004 (and the 604) in the future, but it does not confirm that both pistols share the same internal parts - only that the sizes of the seals used in both may be the same?
    The problem here is that literally nothing you said there can be backed up with citation so yeah I'm going to say it
    You are talking out of your arse.
    It's nothing to do with justifying ones own purchase.
    I'm a motorcyclist and hear the same oil crap spouted by boring old farts about Triumph bikes
    Oh the new one's aren't as good.
    Yes they are.
    Loads better.
    Using your logic, because I know a few people who had serious issues with Ford cars, all ford's are rubbish.
    I doubt very much you are talking from any real world experience
    You're whats known in biking terms as a bar stool road tester

  10. #25
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyals View Post
    Ive searched for these accuracy and reliability issues but can't find anything.
    Could you please provide some links and please don't say, I'm not going to research it for you.
    I have serious doubts about what's being claimed here and would love to see actual evidence.
    I was curious about the claim made by Candle man about the top strap cracking which I noticed you avoided addressing.
    I researched this and found it is true and indeed FAS have redesigned this area
    If something goes wrong with my rear sight at least I still have a pistol to shoot, whereas if that top strap goes I'm stuffed.
    I'm reading a lot of claims here but no verification with evidence.
    Hopefully you'll put that right in your next post although I somehow doubt you can
    In the meantime this is interesting.

    https://www./community/index.php?thr...-strap.340657/

    I can't seem to get the link to work but if you go to the airgun forum and look under pistols you'll see someone posting about "dreaded top frame cracking"
    Andy don't pay too much attention to these forum sages.
    The only person who can judge is you.
    What you're up against here is people who just say you must take their word for it and will never back up their claims with verifiable evidence
    You'll notice they always say "do a search"
    If it was that easy they'd be posting up links themselves to tell you how terrible these pistols are but they won't and they can't.
    There maybe something in the rear sight issue l, just as there is with the top frames cracking on the 604 (notice how they ignore that one) but pretty much everything else they're claiming is unverifiable tosh.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by zooma View Post
    You should read the other contributors postings :-


    "I had a 6004 two days before it broke. (the back sight). I took it back to the suppliers and got a refund" IJ


    "I have seen a few 6004’s through pony club (low use, carefully used) with loose pins, oval pin holes that just suggest that the frame metal is just not as good, the triggers are also just not as good. So these 5-6 year old guns are already showing signs of wear whereas 40year old 604’s generally just need a 6 set of seals if not working and maybe a coat of paint if badly worn. The old 604’s definitely had more hand finishing on the internals. Where there are breakages on the 604’s it’s usually the top cover where it sweeps up over the grip and that is usually as a result of being dropped." sgibbar


    "Never used a 604, but had shocking experience with a 6004, poor consistency, pellet fussy, poor build quality, replaced it with a Gamo Compact which after spending about 5 on some files, wet&dry and some time to fettle trigger was everything the 6004 should have been for 1/3 of the price" clipper.


    "I had a 604 years ago, that's why I bought a 6004, it was supposed to be an updated 604. Mine went in the bin. Tiny steel screws into soft aluminium, glass rear sights etc. The final nail in the coffin was the bracket that holds the barrel in the over- lever. It kept coming loose and letting the barrel move back failing to seal against the breech seal.
    Nipped it up a few times and the tiny bolts stripped. There's not enough metal to drill out and re-tap for a bigger bolt so it was a write off.
    Never had a problem with the old 604." brusieboy


    If you trawl back through the other 6004 threads that have been in this section previously you may find a few more comments of some interest.


    Hope this helps.
    Candleman; I think this might answer your comment about reference sources.

    BTW, Zooma, I. J. and myself have around 120+ years experience of pistol shooting at club, county and national level - we try to help other members on this forum as best we can. Unfortunately some are just born sceptics .
    Last edited by mikec4; 25-04-2021 at 11:02 AM.
    Nowhere to go ........in no hurry to get there; www.rivington-riflemen.uk ----- well I suppose it is somewhere to go.... you'll be able to meet Andy (from up North) there

  12. #27
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    Hastings
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    Hello to All,

    Some fixes/improvements for the Chiappa 6004 :

    http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?t=53523

    Have fun & a good Sunday

    Best regards

    Russ

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikec4 View Post
    Candleman; I think this might answer your comment about reference sources.

    BTW, Zooma, I. J. and myself have around 120+ years experience of pistol shooting at club, county and national level - we try to help other members on this forum as best we can. Unfortunately some are just born sceptics .
    Forgive me for not bowing to your perceived superiority, but by verifiable I mean evidence not hearsay.
    Using your logic because a few Ford Focus cars have problems that means all Ford Focus cars are rubbish
    That's the logic you're using and it's idiotic.
    What you're going to do next is show me verifiable citation from the shooting media with actual photographic evidence of your claims.
    And why are you still running away from the cracking top frame issues.
    Finally, please explain why it is that my 6004 along with a few others being used at my club have performed flawlessly and why am I reading near perfect reviews on various other sites.
    Finally don't think you can pull rank on me.
    I'm just as old and experienced as you and anyone else here.
    Now I'm waiting for actual evidence.
    Not he says she says.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucieboy View Post
    I had a 604 years ago, that's why I bought a 6004, it was supposed to be an updated 604. Mine went in the bin..
    No it didn't
    Stop lying.
    No one throws an item they paid hundreds of pounds for in the bin.
    Now you're just making stuff up and I don't believe you ever owned one.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikec4 View Post
    Candleman; I think this might answer your comment about reference sources.

    BTW, Zooma, I. J. and myself have around 120+ years experience of pistol shooting at club, county and national level - we try to help other members on this forum as best we can. Unfortunately some are just born sceptics .
    Owners of 6004 air pistol on here who have truthfully recorded their experiences and failures with their own air pistols (probably in the correct spirt of the BBS to to try help and advise others) should not be accused of spreading bullshit.

    To try to dismiss these descriptions shows a huge lack of respect for these BBS members, and name calling shows a certain level of ignorance that we have not had to suffer here on the BBS previously.

    The poor quality choice of (soft) material that Chiappa use to mass produce their products and the lack of time spent on the quality of finishing is well known and well documented. Childish name calling is not going to change this.

    I am still hopeful that Chiappa will try to improve these two areas in particular as I still really like the look and the feel of the 6004, and I would still like to buy one when and if they can improve the areas that have proven to be weak or unreliable, but as a realist, I am not going to try to convince myself that the air pistols are currently without fault.......even if they do look really good!
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