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Thread: Explosives Certificate - Reclassification of blackpowder substitutes

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZAKDINGEL View Post
    I have never loaded Black powder so at the moment no need for a ticket ==but what I cant understand is why put a explosive into a sealed container surly its far safer to be stored on a self in a cool place out of sight then if there was a fire "god forbid" it would burn up quickly rather than be contained --your just storing a bomb when its boxed
    Blackpowder is an explosive. it will explode if in a fire.

    Smokeless powder is not. It burns fiercely if in a fire.

    Storing blackpowder in a box is so the occupants have time to vacate the premises before it explodes if there is a fire.

    When the BP box was first introduced, like you, I thought it would be a potential bomb. I wrote to the HSE, Explosives, to express my concern. They explained the reason to me and then it made sense. If I recall correctly in their tests it took approximately 18 minutes for the fire to ignite the blackpowder. (Ample time to vacate the premises). The time, obviously, is dependent on the fierceness of the fire in relation to the location of the BP.
    Last edited by enfield2band; 20-05-2021 at 05:20 PM.

  2. #17
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    https://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr991.pdf

    This is the HSE blackpowder storage test results. The video of it is very good.
    [I]DesG
    Domani e troppo tardi

  3. #18
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    what will happen to all who have 777 at home without a bp licence ?
    looks like those who dont shoot have made the laws to those that do lol.......another cock up

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by davederrick View Post
    Hogden website says Pyrodex is UN0499 on the product safety page.
    just had a quick look and you are correct but i only saw it under transport guidance

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesG View Post
    https://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr991.pdf

    This is the HSE blackpowder storage test results. The video of it is very good.
    Thanks for the pdf it is interesting.
    When I wrote to them it was when the storage of blackpowder was proposed. In their reply they briefly outlined the test and the reason for it. It seems they have done more research into it and more information is now available.
    It does surprise me that they did not use the plastic canisters BP comes in. The substitutes they used might be a different grade of plastic that is more heat resistant and may be thicker walled and not give a completely accurate result.

  6. #21
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    Useless as usual

    Quote Originally Posted by svincett View Post
    Been to Kranks this week

    Rang them to see which license was needed , they said bp licence with 026/027

    I explained it was triple 7 fffg muzzle loading powder that I had previously purchased from them when it was classified 0161

    They said it had to be ordered as they now keep it off site, so it was ordered for the following day to be collected

    Following day went to collect it with bp license, they refused to sell it as didnít have 0499 on bp license

    I explained that I had asked it I could get it on my bp license as it was a 40 mile round trip

    They said 0499 has to be on my bp ticket , otherwise they canít sell it !

    I said that I understand that which is why I rang them first before hand 😡

    They couldnít understand why I would want triple 7 despite it being a muzzle loading powder for my muzzle loaders

    They also said that they wouldnít buy a second hand gun that had been used with triple 7 !



    Rang North Yorkshire Police and they said I need to apply to have 0499 put on my bp license
    Kranks Useless as usual see my post on them. AVOID

  7. #22
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    A little light bedtime reading from the HSE regarding powder storage, rules changed Jan 1st 2021, enjoy yourselves



    https://www.hse.gov.uk/explosives/li...rage/index.htm

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarrisK View Post
    A little light bedtime reading from the HSE regarding powder storage, rules changed Jan 1st 2021, enjoy yourselves



    https://www.hse.gov.uk/explosives/li...rage/index.htm
    Wow! who needs to count sheep now?

  9. #24
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    I decided to include an application for an explosive certificate as part of my recent FAC renewal and consequently sourced a compliant wooden box for storage of 777 which I use quite a lot in my BP revolvers. The FEO visit went smoothly and the FEO couldn't have been more helpful while taking a look at my storage cupboard and box. The certificate was free of charge and will cover the purchase and storage of my powders without too much additional effort.
    Maybe all police forces are not so sympathetic or helpful, but my relations with Sussex Police have always been friendly and efficient.

    Brian

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abasmajor View Post
    I decided to include an application for an explosive certificate as part of my recent FAC renewal and consequently sourced a compliant wooden box for storage of 777 which I use quite a lot in my BP revolvers. The FEO visit went smoothly and the FEO couldn't have been more helpful while taking a look at my storage cupboard and box. The certificate was free of charge and will cover the purchase and storage of my powders without too much additional effort.
    Maybe all police forces are not so sympathetic or helpful, but my relations with Sussex Police have always been friendly and efficient.

    Brian
    Hmmmmm.. two months so far for me (well, a year and two months actually due to "Covid issues") and still no nearer to knowing when I might receive notification of an inspection, as I've been advised that just six of the 150 applications received since 1st August have been processed. If there is an issue with 777 being classified as an explosive then our Constabulary doesn't seem too worried that it's not being stored accordingly. Meanwhile DesG's box sits in lonely isolation just pining for the day when it will have its lid lifted and a couple of bottles of Swiss dropped into its welcoming interior.

  11. #26
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    It wouold be interesting to know just how many preventable accidents have occurred because BP substitutes were not stored in an explosives box. I'm betting the answer is zero.
    True freedom includes the freedom to make mistakes or do foolish things and bear the consequences.
    TANSTAAFL

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnup View Post
    It wouold be interesting to know just how many preventable accidents have occurred because BP substitutes were not stored in an explosives box. I'm betting the answer is zero.
    I'm sure you're 100% correct! I'm just keen to try "proper" BP but the time it's going to take to get a licence is beyond a joke.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by severnsider View Post
    I'm sure you're 100% correct! I'm just keen to try "proper" BP but the time it's going to take to get a licence is beyond a joke.

    The explosives licence is pretty much a rubber stamp job if you have a muzzleloader ticket and it's ree so bang in an applicatin and just wait it out. I have tried a variety of BP subs and I really don't like them so it's BP only for me, but of course this prevents use on indoor ranges.
    True freedom includes the freedom to make mistakes or do foolish things and bear the consequences.
    TANSTAAFL

  14. #29
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    i sent my license in to put sec 58 revolvers as per home office rules on to my ticket.
    they told me to send license in back in march and it be around 2 weeks
    well i got it back ens of september but i did put in 2 variations as well.....it was frustrating as i kept om enquiring how long it would be but was told its on the desk awaiting signing.
    i understand what they did but they never explained anything which would have eased my mind somewhat.....they should have said they are signing all of the sec 58 applications on the very last day before it became law and that would have been satisfactory to me.....now when i got my ticket back i forgot to add ammo on etc lol so i wrote to them and they said just send in.....i also send back my bp license to add 777 on as well and it all took around 2 weeks and no charge for the ammo etc which i thought was excellent

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by loiner1965 View Post
    i sent my license in to put sec 58 revolvers as per home office rules on to my ticket.
    they told me to send license in back in march and it be around 2 weeks
    well i got it back ens of september but i did put in 2 variations as well.....it was frustrating as i kept om enquiring how long it would be but was told its on the desk awaiting signing.
    i understand what they did but they never explained anything which would have eased my mind somewhat.....they should have said they are signing all of the sec 58 applications on the very last day before it became law and that would have been satisfactory to me.....now when i got my ticket back i forgot to add ammo on etc lol so i wrote to them and they said just send in.....i also send back my bp license to add 777 on as well and it all took around 2 weeks and no charge for the ammo etc which i thought was excellent
    I'm curious about this statement. A friend of mine moved house last year and he told the police he was going to add three antique revolvers to his FAC. They told him he needed to apply for a variation.
    This is news to me and other shooters I know. If there has been a law change (Section 58) it has never been mentioned by the MLAGB. I e-mailed the MLAGB to query the variations my friend had to apply for and according to them nothing has changed you can still put on a Section 58 and take it off when you want to. (According to my local FEO (Manchester) any Section 58 put on FAC cannot revert back to antique status) This I am told is not true.

    Either I am/have missed something or the FEO's are making it up as they go along.

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