Whatever happened to air pistols?

[ptdunk]

It’s a shame,
you look at new air pistols that are available now and they are nearly all imitation firearms. I know there are some interesting new air pistols out there like the affordable pcp’s by Artimis and nice spring pistols like the Cometa Indian but when I’m at the club most other people shooting pistols are blatting away with replica style co2 pistols and barely hitting anything.

I feel privileged to collect and shoot air pistols that are designed to shoot a pellet accurately down range, and the designs vary based on cost, patents and mechanism. Such a huge variety of designs, all with their merits.

It’s a shame that designs like the Tempest and Daisy 717 etc have been discontinued. Daisy only make replica firearm co2 pistols now.
At least we still have the HW45, Record LP2, Gamo Compact and FAs 6004 for sale but I can’t help but feel sad that a lot of people coming into air pistols will automatically think of replica CO2 pistols.

I wonder what changed?

Matt

[Jerry Cornelius]

I wonder what changed?

Matt

S.48 of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 taking CO2 off ticket

I think the market for lookee likees would always have been bigger than what you (and I) would think of as real air pistols, but people couldn’t have them. I guess the Record Jumbo was as close as it got

With the possible exception of dedicated 10m guns that are still made to a standard, I can’t see much being made today that will be desirable in the future. That said I got a Healthways Plainsman recently, and it’s hard to imagine that was seen as much more than a toy when it was made. So maybe at Kempton 2071 they’ll be going nuts for umarex

[Shed tuner]

drulov... best of both worlds

[EricP]

Part of the problem is that competition pistols are all very expensive PCPs, so someone shooting a springer or SSP has nothing to shoot them for. I have a HW45 and HW75 but nowhere to shoot them but at home in the UBC competitions (though I have dropped out of that lately). The range I go to has no pistol facilities and few pistol shooters. For garden shooting CO2 pistols are fun, and some are reasonably accurate, certainly the pellet shooters. I have a few, such as the Webley Mk VI, Colt SAA 7.5”, Walther CPS, Sig Sauer X5, and a few BBs such as the Luger, SAA 5.5”, Makarov, MP40…
So the replicas may be fun only, but at least there is that element. The “serious” guns (springers and SSPs) have to most people no function except trying to improve personal performance, with no-one to shoot against but oneself. That loses its appeal after a while.

[Benelli B76]

Last week had my Smith 78G out to dust it off and shoot, copy of the Model 41 I had. Probably in the top few CO2 pistols that copies a firearm, shoots over 5 ft.lb and is very accurate. The Schimel also is a surprisingly accurate pistol with good power. Sadly both out of production for a long time.

Baz

[Unframed Dave]

Is it because they're a lot of fun?

I've owned a few but the appeal is always temporary, my old hw70 always makes me smile though.

Dave

[WebleyWombler]

Air pistol designers have often tried to emulate the real thing, even if there are only vague similarities. Look for example at the Webley Whiting. The straight grip Webleys could be mistaken in the dark for the Colt 1911, as could the earlier Benjamin pistols. Whilst only very vague, I've always thought the Akvoke looked like an Astra 600.

There are still springers made such as the Chinese S2 . Co2 like CP1 and PP700 so the interpretation of 'what should an air pistol actually look like' is still quite large

[Mark D]

S.48 of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 taking CO2 off ticket

I think the market for lookee likees would always have been bigger than what you (and I) would think of as real air pistols, but people couldn’t have them. I guess the Record Jumbo was as close as it got

With the possible exception of dedicated 10m guns that are still made to a standard, I can’t see much being made today that will be desirable in the future. That said I got a Healthways Plainsman recently, and it’s hard to imagine that was seen as much more than a toy when it was made. So maybe at Kempton 2071 they’ll be going nuts for umarex

^^ This. The original Umarex range in CO2 - 1911,586,Mod 92,CP88 were a natural transition after 97 for those that wanted to shoot comps. IPAS and other fast fire comps. Interestingly some of those models, Gold Cup,PPC1500 models are now collectable items.

[45flint]

It’s a shame,
you look at new air pistols that are available now and they are nearly all imitation firearms. I know there are some interesting new air pistols out there like the affordable pcp’s by Artimis and nice spring pistols like the Cometa Indian but when I’m at the club most other people shooting pistols are blatting away with replica style co2 pistols and barely hitting anything.

I feel privileged to collect and shoot air pistols that are designed to shoot a pellet accurately down range, and the designs vary based on cost, patents and mechanism. Such a huge variety of designs, all with their merits.

It’s a shame that designs like the Tempest and Daisy 717 etc have been discontinued. Daisy only make replica firearm co2 pistols now.
At least we still have the HW45, Record LP2, Gamo Compact and FAs 6004 for sale but I can’t help but feel sad that a lot of people coming into air pistols will automatically think of replica CO2 pistols.

I wonder what changed?

Matt

PCP happened. These are now the standard target shooting pistols and the CO2 are your cheap toys. That’s why people collect classic spring pistols, the likes of which will never be made again. Less accurate than a PCP and more expensive to make well.

[Abasmajor]

I guess anybody new to the sport and not of a certain age will be more attracted to some sort of action shooting rather than the 10 metre precision discipline we older shooters probably started with on our introduction to the sport. I used to shoot breech loading pistols before the UK ban and always preferred shooting precision using a revolver with the occasional Police Pistol interlude to spice things up a bit. Alongside were the 'Practical Pistol' shooters with tricked-up semi-autos running and engaging targets at different ranges. Not for me, but they seemed to prefer this more dynamic style always shot with the highest regard to safety and regulation.
I can understand the appeal of well made modern replica Co2 pistols which to me anyway are far better than deactivated live firearms and there is always room for both interests to enjoy the sport side by side with equal enthusiasm.

Brian

[ogilkes]

This thread reminds me of the demand for a 'real airgun section' on here some years ago, which resulted on a new section for knitting being created..... But yes, I have never been that keen on replica Co2 pistols, though I have one or two like the Webley Mk6, a Mauser C96 and the Umarex 357 revolver, but the endless plastic Glock and other modern pistol clones really leave me cold.

[JimmieDee]

I agree. All modern CO2 replicas are the same design under the hood. Many with awful triggers or fixed sights. I've just about sold off all my modern replica CO2 pistols with the exception of a Goldeneye boxed edition CP99 including the "vhs video" and a couple of boxed Smith and Wesson 586 pistols. I solely focus on vintage airguns now as they are far more interesting. Especially a Crosman 451 as it blasts these modern pistols off the range along with the Schimel.... love shooting the Schimel with targets at 25 yards. So loud too! Always a head turner at the firing line. Imagine that, the first production CO2 capsule air pistol still showing the young kids of the block how it should really be done.

[smallholder1]

webley premier and eb22 my favourite pistols eb22 near 6ftp

[Geezer]

S.48 of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 taking CO2 off ticket

I think the market for lookee likees would always have been bigger than what you (and I) would think of as real air pistols, but people couldn’t have them. I guess the Record Jumbo was as close as it got

With the possible exception of dedicated 10m guns that are still made to a standard, I can’t see much being made today that will be desirable in the future. That said I got a Healthways Plainsman recently, and it’s hard to imagine that was seen as much more than a toy when it was made. So maybe at Kempton 2071 they’ll be going nuts for umarex

Think that’s true here. And there were plenty of pre-1997 replicas, but they were mostly American CO2 guns. And things like the jackals and gamo paras or G10s sold well when they were the nearest you could visually get to a modern military type weapon.

I guess what I’m saying is (a) there was a latent market in the U.K. pre-97, but (b) in markets which had no CO2 restrictions, replicas have also come to dominate the market.

I guess that is down to a number of factors, including the tacticool-isation of shooting (the American who felt well-protected by a .38” snubby now carries a Glock and has an AR15 at home, not a pump shotgun).

It was definitely the case in the post war years that most shooters had less interest than modern ones in paramilitary weapons, maybe because they’d been shot at with them for real. That changed in the US with the 70s (post Vietnam, riots, urban terrorism, economic malaise) with the rise of the survivalist movement, and then seemed to get supercharged post-9/11. I guess that stuff, combined with shooter video games, has trickled down to air pistols.

I like CO2 replicas. I also like “proper” air pistols.

[nikvanorton]

I'm lucky enough to have an Ataman AP16 Compact. It's superbly built and although it was a bit pricey, you can see where the money has gone. Just waiting for a Donnyfl moderator adapter so I can shoot it in our new garden (our old house was a bit more remote).