Webley Service Mk II (screw) threads.

[NormanDLanding]

Here's a little puzzle for our Technical Experts.
Does anyone know the thread form for the little pin which holds the Barrel Pivot pin in its sleeve? (The barrels of these guns are interchangeable and just slide out of the sleeve when a plunger is pressed).
I've tried to indentify it with my standard thread gauges, but nothing seems to fit. It's around 2BA, and I'm pretty sure it's 36 TPI, but because the hole is slightly oval that's as close as I can get.
Just wondered if it was some oddball gun trade special thread?
Also, is the screw supposed to go all the way through the Pivot Pin? It does on the original Pivot Pin (which had sheared in half through the hole), but the screw itself is dog-ended, i.e. has no thread for about 3/32" from its point, so it should function if I just drill the replacement pin half way through or even just spot it with a dimple.
Here's hoping someone who's got one of these can throw some light on the problem before I just drill it out and put a bigger screw in!
(I would like to keep the gun as original as possible).
Thanks guys.

[deejayuu]

5/32 Whit. is my best guess. Will try harder tomorrow if it helps.

[NormanDLanding]

5/32 Whit. is my best guess. Will try harder tomorrow if it helps.

Hmm. Don't think I've got anything in that thread: but will have a rummage tomorrow and see if I can find anything that size to try - watch this space!
Thanks in the meantime, will let you know how I got on.
Dave S.

[abellringer]

Hi guys. Webley often used special threads, and I think this may be the answer. 5/32" Whit is listed at 0.1563"; Webley used a 0.150" X 36tpi for several pivot screws. The same thread is used on pivot screws in the Senior and Premier pistols; so if you can get one of these, you can verify the thread I have them if needed. Sadly I don't have any service spares to offer and the few drawings I have aren't for these screws. It may be that the locking screw is actually the same as the pistols, those I have as spares, but without someone offering to check one of theirs it's not easy to sort.
Hope this helps
abellringer [Ray]

[NormanDLanding]

Hi guys. Webley often used special threads, and I think this may be the answer. 5/32" Whit is listed at 0.1563"; Webley used a 0.150" X 36tpi for several pivot screws. The same thread is used on pivot screws in the Senior and Premier pistols; so if you can get one of these, you can verify the thread I have them if needed. Sadly I don't have any service spares to offer and the few drawings I have aren't for these screws. It may be that the locking screw is actually the same as the pistols, those I have as spares, but without someone offering to check one of theirs it's not easy to sort.
Hope this helps
abellringer [Ray]

Hi Ray
This sounds very interesting. I've done a couple of measurements since my original post, and this afternoon was able to get my tame Engineer's Merchant chum to ferret around the darkest recesses of his Imperial Fasteners stockroom to find me some 5/32" Whit screws.
Unfortunatelly these are only 32 TPI, although the o/d across the crest I mic as 0.149", pretty close to the Webley thread you mention at 0.150"
The corresponding figures for the original dog end Pivot Retaining screw are 36 TPI (now double-checked!) and 0.154" o.d.
As it happens, I do have a Senior, so I think the next step is going to be to check out the Pivot screws on that.
I'll let you know how far I get.

Yr remark about "a few (Webley) drawings" intrigued me considerably. Any info on these would be fascinating, I'm sure. We you associated with Webley in an Official Capacity, or is it stuff you've just picked up on your travels? (Without giving away any Trade Secrets, obviously!!!).
Dave S.

[evert]

Looking at an Excel table of thread dimensions, theres a thread listed at .151" x 36tpi.
It is called 7-36 ASME in the table.

[Troubledshooter]

Here's a little puzzle for our Technical Experts.
Does anyone know the thread form for the little pin which holds the Barrel Pivot pin in its sleeve? (The barrels of these guns are interchangeable and just slide out of the sleeve when a plunger is pressed).
I've tried to indentify it with my standard thread gauges, but nothing seems to fit. It's around 2BA, and I'm pretty sure it's 36 TPI, but because the hole is slightly oval that's as close as I can get.
Just wondered if it was some oddball gun trade special thread?
Also, is the screw supposed to go all the way through the Pivot Pin? It does on the original Pivot Pin (which had sheared in half through the hole), but the screw itself is dog-ended, i.e. has no thread for about 3/32" from its point, so it should function if I just drill the replacement pin half way through or even just spot it with a dimple.
Here's hoping someone who's got one of these can throw some light on the problem before I just drill it out and put a bigger screw in!
(I would like to keep the gun as original as possible).
Thanks guys.

I have a few Webley Service blueprint drawings but none of them seem to show the pivot bolt lock screw, although they show everything else.
I will email a copy which may give some clue at to the threads used on other screws.

[deejayuu]

Ours is definitely not 36 tpi looks 32 to my very bleary eyes. May not be original of course. Can't get to our other one at the mo'.
Will bound to be some at Melbourne tomorrow tho'.

[GreenwayJ]

Overall it is not an off the shelf sized screw so it would have to have been made, they wouldnt modify a standard screw surely?, by W&S on their machinery so the thread type would have been up to them. It makes sense then that they would pick a non standard thread/size so the spare would have to have been bought from them at the time. Also they would have made a few bucketfulls once the machine was set up. Certainly a lot more than MK2s went out of the gates. Whats the betting that many ended up in a skip after a clearout.
Speaking of W&S Blueprints/drawings I was told that John Bowkett came into posession of a load of these in the 1980s and passed them on to his friend the late ray Hill to find a suitable custodian. I wasnt told who that was but that info must still be out there somewhere.

[Troubledshooter]

A large number of original W&S blueprints/drawings are still held by Highland Outdoors, the current owners of the W&S trade name.

[deejayuu]

Fingers crossed. A man at Melbourne today said he has a couple at home and will have a look for them.

[vintagewebleyman]

Hi I think I have found one in my spares box, I have tried it in a rifle and it did fit/screw in. PM me your address and I will forward it on.
Cheers Paul

[deejayuu]

Well done Paul. Good fun at Melbourne.

[NormanDLanding]

Hi guys. Webley often used special threads, and I think this may be the answer. 5/32" Whit is listed at 0.1563"; Webley used a 0.150" X 36tpi for several pivot screws. The same thread is used on pivot screws in the Senior and Premier pistols; so if you can get one of these, you can verify the thread I have them if needed. Sadly I don't have any service spares to offer and the few drawings I have aren't for these screws. It may be that the locking screw is actually the same as the pistols, those I have as spares, but without someone offering to check one of theirs it's not easy to sort.
Hope this helps
abellringer [Ray]

Hi Ray
Apologies for the delay in replying.
Could you please clarify which Pivot Screws you have in mind on the Senior/ Premier which you suggested might be the same size?
I dug out my old Senior to check, but the only screw which I would call a "Pivot Screw" is the Barrel Pivot Screw just below the muzzel. On mine, this is a hollow screw, with a slot head at one end and internally threaded, the other end (which stops it falling out) is a slot-head screw.
However the thread on this is much smaller than the one I need for the Service.
(Sorry if I'm being dense!)
Thanks again.
Dave S

[WebleyWombler]

Does the barrel latch on a Senior pivot to release the barrel? That screw is around 0.150" if I remember correctly?