Springer accuracy

[TonyL]

No worries; keep enjoying that lovely springer.

I've always thought it would be most interesting and eye-opening to be able to conduct some chrono testing at various different temperatures, especially from a "standing start" just to fully see the effects. Obviously, as mentioned up above, there won't be much difference at all between readings obtained at two broadly similar temperatures, but to see the difference between velocity at close to freezing and, say, 20 degrees centigrade would be revealing.

Or you could just not worry about it, keep it simple, put those two or three warming/settling-in shots through and just use.. And use the pellets you've saved to use by getting even more practice in / vermin shot.

And if you ever fancy attending a Boinger Bash event, which I'm sure you'd love, there will be one happening not a million miles from you in late Spring / early Summer.

[BTDT]

Well I think there are a lot of variables here and when I tried it in doors it was bang on from the start. Could have been hand hold (changing), eyes, wind, unwashed un selected pellets and so on, but I think I will from now on waste a few shots to start if its a hunting trip. I dont compete so no worries there. Thanks for all your replies.

I would not waste shots to start a hunting trip. Hunting shots tend to be infrequent enough for any heat gained by the piston seal to flow into the surrounding steel until equilibrium is achieved - maybe a minute?

Every hunting shot is thus effectively a first shot.

[TonyL]

The Lord of The Springs indeed talketh with wisdom.

[Antoni]

I would not waste shots to start a hunting trip. Hunting shots tend to be infrequent enough for any heat gained by the piston seal to flow into the surrounding steel until equilibrium is achieved - maybe a minute?

Every hunting shot is thus effectively a first shot.

Purely from the gun's point of view, would you take a gun from your cabinet which hasn't been used for a year and then take an important shot with it? I wouldn't.

How far down from one year would that go - maybe a week? A day? Assuming you accept the premise in the first place...

[NickG]

So if the general consensus is to shoot a few to warm it up , when you are hunting it will have cooled down by the time you find your prey . That doesn't sound good.

[TonyL]

Purely from the gun's point of view, would you take a gun from your cabinet which hasn't been used for a year and then take an important shot with it? I wouldn't.

How far down from one year would that go - maybe a week? A day? Assuming you accept the premise in the first place...

As any responsible hunter would, Jim would be taking a few shots to check zero anyway, fulfilling a couple of jobs at the same time.

[BTDT]

Purely from the gun's point of view, would you take a gun from your cabinet which hasn't been used for a year and then take an important shot with it? I wouldn't.

How far down from one year would that go - maybe a week? A day? Assuming you accept the premise in the first place...

Every session on rabbits starts with a single shot to check zero, and I would not advocate otherwise.

[cooper_dan]

I don't particularly hunt anymore but I shot A LOT of HFT in the last few years. Every competition is slightly different in terms of how many people are there, how many in your group, number of stoppages etc. But with a slow group of 3 in front of you and a stoppage, you can sometimes go 10 minutes between shots. If my TX 'went cold' in that time I would have thrown it in the bin a long time ago.
My experience is that 30 shots in 3 hours does not cause my TX any issues with variations, temperature or otherwise.

Does that rule out 'warming up' temperature? I think so. Maybe 'settling in' is the better term. Do you store your rifles upright? Maybe as an experiment you could try storing it horizontal overnight and see if that makes a difference?

[WineRack 97KT]

No worries; keep enjoying that lovely springer.

I've always thought it would be most interesting and eye-opening to be able to conduct some chrono testing at various different temperatures, especially from a "standing start" just to fully see the effects.[...]

I'm in. It's -15C here this morning and can run 38C or more in the summer. I wouldn't mind doing some chrono testing at various temperatures and posting a log here. Obviously my rifles live indoors, but I set up my bench rest just inside my back door and they do get quite hot or cold.
Would anyone be interested in this?

Rob

[TonyL]

I don't particularly hunt anymore but I shot A LOT of HFT in the last few years. Every competition is slightly different in terms of how many people are there, how many in your group, number of stoppages etc. But with a slow group of 3 in front of you and a stoppage, you can sometimes go 10 minutes between shots. If my TX 'went cold' in that time I would have thrown it in the bin a long time ago.
My experience is that 30 shots in 3 hours does not cause my TX any issues with variations, temperature or otherwise.

Does that rule out 'warming up' temperature? I think so. Maybe 'settling in' is the better term. Do you store your rifles upright? Maybe as an experiment you could try storing it horizontal overnight and see if that makes a difference?

Fully agree, Dan.

[TonyL]

I'm in. It's -15C here this morning and can run 38C or more in the summer. I wouldn't mind doing some chrono testing at various temperatures and posting a log here. Obviously my rifles live indoors, but I set up my bench rest just inside my back door and they do get quite hot or cold.
Would anyone be interested in this?

Rob

I'd be most interested and would look forward to seeing the results, as I'm sure would many.

However, careful, as I think it could be so easy to get pulled ever deeper into this.......The results would be valid, for sure. And eye opening. But bear in mind that, although the overall picture might represent the majority of springers out there, the results really only apply to that one rifle tested, the condition of the seal, the fit of the seal and a fair few other variables too.

But it would certainly prove interesting. Some had been done before but there's nothing quite like doing a bit of your own testing if you have the time, patience and commitment. Especially the comparisons between extreme temps. And how many shots from very cold, if any, until things stabilise? And exactly how long until the inactive gun's performance alters again once cooled in the very cold. And, at high temps (depending on piston seal fit), if the rifle is shot in rapid succession, how long until velocity drops to an unacceptable level?

[WineRack 97KT]

I agree, TonyL. No matter how many data points I can report, it's still one data point.
I know all about these rabbit holes!

What I can report from one rifle, I will post (perhaps a new thread?) but it will take a bit of time. I'll get started.

Rob

[Cutsngrazes]

Some of you more experienced springer shooters are no doubt already aware of the following observations but for me it was a surprise.

Over the last weeks I have switched to shooting my springer instead of my HW100.
Consistently the first three or four shots of the day were going high, each one getting closer and from shot 4 were back on zero.
I was convinced this was down to the internals of the gun (piston/seal etc) settling down or warming up. Then I noticed that when I relaxed my usual head position so my cheek was not as firm on the stock, my shots went high.
Next day, I made sure my gun hold, cheek position and pressure were correct to my usual style and the first shots went straight, so it was not the gun, it was me.
I have tested this over a few days and the gun (Walther LGU) starts out spot on from cold every time. I knew gun hold was important but I thought that was mainly for position in shoulder, tightness of grip etc, but did not think cheek pressure on top of the stock would be so sensitive.
My conclusion is that my first shots, anticipating the recoil and lacking confidence that the shot would be accurate, caused me to concentrate more on looking through the scope than on gun hold and the shots went high. As my shots came closer to target, my confidence increased and I subconsciously reverted to my usual gun hold, cheek position/pressure etc. and the shots hit target.

As some of you have said, if the gun needed a few warming shots before it returned to zero, it would not be ideal for infrequent shots on hunting days.
Try a few shots with varying gun holds/pressures and note the change in strike points, the less experienced of you may be surprised at the variation.

[Turnup]

I have found similar with my Tx200. The gun does not noticeably diesel (no smoke no smell) but if I "pump" the spring full stroke (just short of cocking it) 3 or 4 times then the early inconsistencies are gone. I have a couple of theories:

1) getting fresh air into the comp tube removes the vapors which might have collected in there.

2) "settling" the (tiny amount) of lube (moly) along the comp tube and piston seal

Hard to imagine that the spring is warmed very much by this and I really do not have a strong view as to why this happens but try "pumping" yours a few times and see if your experience is like mine.

[TonyL]

Some of you more experienced springer shooters are no doubt already aware of the following observations but for me it was a surprise.

Over the last weeks I have switched to shooting my springer instead of my HW100.
Consistently the first three or four shots of the day were going high, each one getting closer and from shot 4 were back on zero.
I was convinced this was down to the internals of the gun (piston/seal etc) settling down or warming up. Then I noticed that when I relaxed my usual head position so my cheek was not as firm on the stock, my shots went high.
Next day, I made sure my gun hold, cheek position and pressure were correct to my usual style and the first shots went straight, so it was not the gun, it was me.
I have tested this over a few days and the gun (Walther LGU) starts out spot on from cold every time. I knew gun hold was important but I thought that was mainly for position in shoulder, tightness of grip etc, but did not think cheek pressure on top of the stock would be so sensitive.
My conclusion is that my first shots, anticipating the recoil and lacking confidence that the shot would be accurate, caused me to concentrate more on looking through the scope than on gun hold and the shots went high. As my shots came closer to target, my confidence increased and I subconsciously reverted to my usual gun hold, cheek position/pressure etc. and the shots hit target.

As some of you have said, if the gun needed a few warming shots before it returned to zero, it would not be ideal for infrequent shots on hunting days.
Try a few shots with varying gun holds/pressures and note the change in strike points, the less experienced of you may be surprised at the variation.

Nice post, sir.