Gallery gun info sought

[greenwayjames]

Know about gallery guns that worked on the bellows principle but just heard of a 19th century example that propels the ball/dart from a charge of air created by a built in pump in the butt? That sounds a good idea.
Realising all gallery guns were probably all made as one off items for the rich in those days my question is how many different means of driving a dart down the barrel have members encountered.
I dont mean variations of the same principle.

[greenwayjames]

Well, I had hoped this may start an interesting thread on these wonderful old masterpieces. There were many types of propulsion, usually some sort of spring, used in the making of what were the very first airguns made for true target/practice shooting with no other intended use. There were tales of a .28" calibre high power revolver version being made for "non lethal" crowd use at the time of the US civil war but this may just have have been yet another urban myth.

139 views and not a single reply sadly confirms what I thought would happen

[ccdjg]

I think the problem was how you phrased your question, i.e. "how many different means of driving a dart down the barrel have members encountered?"

The literal answer would be: compressed air from bellows, compressed air from spring piston, or air pre-compressed in a reservoir. So there is not really much else to say.

Did you intend to ask about different types of cocking mechanism in the case of spring piston, or different types of reservoir in pneumatic gallery guns? If so, then I think you might then have opened up an interesting discussion.

[trajectory]

I can't contribute much to this as I've only ever seen a couple of Bugelspanners(spelling?) & read a couple of articles on them but I'd be interested to learn a bit more about them as its an area I have little knowledge or experience of.

From an inexperienced perspective I guess quality might well have varied but some look to be highly decorated & therefore I guess expensive when new. With different makers were some more reliable than others? How did the mechanisms evolve with time is there a traceable chronological progression? How durable were they in terms of mechanical reliability.... Springs etc. were there makers who supplied actions to stock makers, or we're they produced 'in house'? Just interested, so any replies or suggestion of books/ articles welcome.

[greenwayjames]

I think the problem was how you phrased your question, i.e. "how many different means of driving a dart down the barrel have members encountered?"

The literal answer would be: compressed air from bellows, compressed air from spring piston, or air pre-compressed in a reservoir. So there is not really much else to say.

Did you intend to ask about different types of cocking mechanism in the case of spring piston, or different types of reservoir in pneumatic gallery guns? If so, then I think you might then have opened up an interesting discussion.

It was the means of compressing the air and that could include levers. I have heard of the use of strong V springs, flat springs, coil and convolute etc. as a power source.
Mechanisms for transfering movement to the dart/ball either directly or indirectly. I believe those that used a direct method were called strike pump guns?

[greenwayjames]

I can't contribute much to this as I've only ever seen a couple of Bugelspanners(spelling?) & read a couple of articles on them but I'd be interested to learn a bit more about them as its an area I have little knowledge or experience of.

From an inexperienced perspective I guess quality might well have varied but some look to be highly decorated & therefore I guess expensive when new. With different makers were some more reliable than others? How did the mechanisms evolve with time is there a traceable chronological progression? How durable were they in terms of mechanical reliability.... Springs etc. were there makers who supplied actions to stock makers, or we're they produced 'in house'? Just interested, so any replies or suggestion of books/ articles welcome.

Its an interestesting subject with plenty of room for educated guesses due to the passage of time but some examples may still be about in collections. I have always thought the were not made by ordinary gunsmiths but a group apart as many are "unfirearm like".

[Garvin]

Know about gallery guns that worked on the bellows principle but just heard of a 19th century example that propels the ball/dart from a charge of air created by a built in pump in the butt? That sounds a good idea.
Realising all gallery guns were probably all made as one off items for the rich in those days my question is how many different means of driving a dart down the barrel have members encountered.
I dont mean variations of the same principle.

I have a vague recollection of a gallery gun with a self-contained pump in the butt, if that's what you mean? Unfortunately the 19th and 18th century section of the gallery is so boated these days that it will take quite a while to go through all the pics (including the ones you supplied yourself James!).

https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....ntury-airguns/

[ccdjg]

It was the means of compressing the air and that could include levers. I have heard of the use of strong V springs, flat springs, coil and convolute etc. as a power source.
Mechanisms for transfering movement to the dart/ball either directly or indirectly. I believe those that used a direct method were called strike pump guns?

Strike-pump guns (I can't say that I like phrase, but it seems to be here to stay) are normal spring piston airguns, using compressed air to propel the projectile. There was a discussion about the origins of the phrase here https://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread...ht=strike+pump

Over here we would call guns that use direct contact between a spring and the missile simply 'spring guns', whereas on the other side off the pond they would be called 'catapult guns'. To us Brits a catapult gun would be interpreted as a gun propelled by stretched rubber. Over the pond 'stretched rubbers' would conjure up an image of something more colourful. Who says we speak the same language?

The oddest spring piston gallery gun l know of is the Lippert gallery pistol, which was in the Robert Beeman collection. I thought the Kuchenreuter pistol was a uniquely odd spring piston airgun, in that it used a hammer to cock an external V-spring, but the Lippert beats it for weirdness Its main spring is the trigger guard, which is compressed by a winding mechanism!

[draitzer]

There are several useful books that provide the kind of info about historical airguns that you're looking for: "Airguns" by Eldon Wolff, "Encyclopedia of Gas, Air, & Spring Guns" by WH B Smith, and "Airguns & Other Pneumatic Arms" by Arne Hoff all have considerable antique-airgun content.
The two main categories are:
1. 'Pre-charged' guns having a reservoir (ball, butt, barrel-surround) including some with on-board pumps; some of these expelled all their air on one shot but most were multi-shot.
2. Guns that generate pressure upon firing (bellows, piston) that can use springs of leaf, V, zig-zag, volute, or coil design. The term 'strike pump' refers to piston guns, not to a mechanical whacker propelling the ball a la Daisy 179 pistol which is not an air gun.

Makers in the old times were extremely inventive with a vast variety of firing systems, barrel latches, cocking methods. And yes, there were revolving airguns, notably in the category of American spring-powered gallery guns. Get the Wolff book for details.

Don R.

[greenwayjames]

Thank you for all of your replies. There does seem to be many totally different designs for these guns, its almost as if every maker wanted to be different . Thanks for the correction on strike pumps.

[walnutfarmmick]

Strike-pump guns (I can't say that I like phrase, but it seems to be here to stay) are normal spring piston airguns, using compressed air to propel the projectile. There was a discussion about the origins of the phrase here https://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread...ht=strike+pump

Over here we would call guns that use direct contact between a spring and the missile simply 'spring guns', whereas on the other side off the pond they would be called 'catapult guns'. To us Brits a catapult gun would be interpreted as a gun propelled by stretched rubber. Over the pond 'stretched rubbers' would conjure up an image of something more colourful. Who says we speak the same language?

The oddest spring piston gallery gun l know of is the Lippert gallery pistol, which was in the Robert Beeman collection. I thought the Kuchenreuter pistol was a uniquely odd spring piston airgun, in that it used a hammer to cock an external V-spring, but the Lippert beats it for weirdness Its main spring is the trigger guard, which is compressed by a winding mechanism!

Apparently there was some confusion over Black Dyke Mills Band when they went to the States. In proper Yorkshire fashion they insisted that was their name not United Woollens. There might have been disappointment among the ticket buyers, too.

ATB, Mick

[leh22]

I have a vague recollection of a gallery gun with a self-contained pump in the butt, if that's what you mean? Unfortunately the 19th and 18th century section of the gallery is so boated these days that it will take quite a while to go through all the pics (including the ones you supplied yourself James!).

https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....ntury-airguns/

Hi Danny:

I've got a couple of marked specimens of that style, but cannot seem to be able to post photos here. Can I submit them here through you?

Thanks,

LarryH

[Garvin]

Hi Danny:

I've got a couple of marked specimens of that style, but cannot seem to be able to post photos here. Can I submit them here through you?

Thanks,

LarryH

Wow!

[micky2]

Wow!

What great 2 rifles. such craftmanship. are there any makers names stamped on them.

[ptdunk]

Wow!

Stunning.
Hadn’t heard of pump up gallery guns, just high power hunting rifles. Any idea what kind of power they produced? I believe most volute spring or bellows don’t normally produce more than 2-3 ftlbs. (Low power is good for reusable darts)

Also they seem to have a similar barrel lock mechanism as John G’s bellows pistol & the Kuchenreuter. Do you think it could be the same maker?

Fantastic examples, thanks for sharing.

Matt