Weihrauch/bsf hybrid is completely fictional!

[Hsing-ee]

There is a story which says that HW used up parts of BSF rifles to make the HW85 after the HW takeover of BSF, usually the HW85 scope rail is cited as one of these parts. I think that the rail, while it is similar in concept to the BSF rail, is a completely different part to that used on BSF rifles. Original/Diana also use such a rail, as did some of the late BSA springers. It is a part that people can think up and design and make all on their own, BSF did not buy the copywright.

This idea that HW bought BSF and then used up the remaining parts making a 'bitza' rifle called the HW85 is a piece of internet mythology that has no place in fact.

Can I.J. or someone with both the HW85 (old school version) and an example of the BSF rail take pictures and show the world that the idea that the HW85 contains BSF parts is a big pile of bullcrap?

HW did not use anything at all from the BSF range of parts that I can identify in any rifle ever.

HW bought up BSF and may have used whatever good engineering machinery and staff that were left, but that is all I think.

The rail was there, so I believe, because the engineers were concerned that the thin-walled tubing they were using could possibly have been distorted by people crimping their one-piece mounts on too hard should they have cut the grooves in the normal way. Although this might be nonsense as well.

[I. J.]

Can I.J. or someone with both the HW85 (old school version) and an example of the BSF rail take pictures ......

Your wish is my command.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Airsniper/media/Airgun%20bits/BSFandHWscoperail-1.jpg.html?filters[user]=1811841&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

While I do agree that the BSF scope rail and HW85 rails are NOT interchangeable as the '85 has two fixing screws and is 'key holed' at the front and the BSF has one fixing screw. I think the BSF rail is key holed at the back (Im not prepared to strip one at the moment ) so while they are not interchangeable the basic casting look very similar.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Airsniper/media/HW85withoutscoperail.jpg.html?filters[user]=1811841&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=1 HW85 without scope rail.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Airsniper/media/HW85scoperail.jpg.html?filters[user]=1811841&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=2 HW85 with scope rail.

HTH
Ian

[Hsing-ee]

Thanks Ian you are a gentleman. With a camera and the skill to use it.

Hmm. They do look very similar.

OK maybe they did use up all the old scope rails from BSF.

But that is all.

No cylinders.

No barrels.

No trigger units (as if!)

I am wrong but only a bit wrong.

[bigtoe01]

I think they copied the idea and not much more, its actually not a bad one as the 85 is a nice rifle although not built for sub12 per se due to long stroke.

[greenwayjames]

I was told that machining grooves for a sight in a thinwall tube is a last resort. A scope rail spot welded onto the tube is another alternative which is usually avoided as it puts good finish polishing prior to blacking costs up. Polishing is cheaper the closer the article is to a tube. The obvious solution is a keyhole cutout for the rail and is used by many because of the above. So I was told by someone who knows about such things

[stillair1]

I think they copied the idea and not much more, its actually not a bad one as the 85 is a nice rifle although not built for sub12 per se due to long stroke.

That was my feeling too at the time the HW85 was revealed.

[DNF]

I saw a hybrid bsf/hw in about 1981 If you can find a early airgun world they were advertised in 1980 I think. It was made from bit of both brands.

[bigtoe01]

That was my feeling too at the time the HW85 was revealed.

I short stroked mine here, ran it as a .25 for a while and it was sublime, its back as a .22 now with a screw cut 95 barrel as the original barrel has 2 internal rust spots which have rendered the barrel as scrap..I have kept it however.

I pushed mine down by around 15mm, i seem to remember they have 90mm stroke as standard, notes are on another pc so i can't check right now, it shoots well, nice rifle.

[Hsing-ee]

I think they copied the idea and not much more, its actually not a bad one as the 85 is a nice rifle although not built for sub12 per se due to long stroke.

Does the 95 have a shorter stroke? I thought most of the 'full size' HW range (90, 95, 98, 80, 77, 97) are built for over 12 ft/lbs or is it the long stroke that is particularly bad with this one? It does seen to have a hell of a long cocking stroke with its one-piece cocking lever, particularly compared to the FWB Sport which is a max 12-14 ft/lbs rifle (if its not dieselling!).

[Hsing-ee]

I saw a hybrid bsf/hw in about 1981 If you can find a early airgun world they were advertised in 1980 I think. It was made from bit of both brands.

Yes, Rod Lynton had it made up from the then new alloy called imaginarium and used it to shoot unirabbits (you know, the bunnies with a single golden narwal horn growing from their foreheads?) while listening to Spandau Ballet from his Ford Capri 2.8i.

I think you might have seen an advert for a BSF S80, which was BSF's last gasp aimed at the then-new sport of FT - a BSF S70 with an ugly hamsterised stock. Or possibly one of the BSF Venom specials, which might have been made up from the last few batches of parts.

There was no BSF/HW hybrid! I had all the AGWs from that era and its not in there.

[bigtoe01]

Does the 95 have a shorter stroke? I thought most of the 'full size' HW range (90, 95, 98, 80, 77, 97) are built for over 12 ft/lbs or is it the long stroke that is particularly bad with this one? It does seen to have a hell of a long cocking stroke with its one-piece cocking lever, particularly compared to the FWB Sport which is a max 12-14 ft/lbs rifle (if its not dieselling!).

Yes the 95 has a shorter stroke, i was as surprised as you when i measured my 85 here, initially i built it at full stroke, it was quite nice.

I have done 2 other 85's for BASA as part of a trade for this gun so I knew i could get them smooth, however as i learnt more i decided it was time to revisit the 85 and short stroked it...its really very nice now, one of the lads at the club would buy it tomorrow if i said it was up for sale.

Once you reduce the stroke you treat the gun like a 95, open the TP to 3.6mm and set the piston weight, very easy to tune imo. I think mine was better as a .25 but its still nice as a .22

[T 20]

Hi Alistair

There was another gun produced inbetween the BSF55 and the HW85.

The "New Model BSF55" being half HW85 and half BSF55 --- check out the part numbers.

https://www.gunspares.co.uk/products...-55-NEW-MODEL/

This gun was sold in the States as the Marksman Model 70

http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.co...&by-date=false


So in effect the HW85 is the second Weihrauch reincarnation of the BSF55.




All the best Mick

[Hsing-ee]

Hi Alistair

There was another gun produced inbetween the BSF55 and the HW85.

The "New Model BSF55" being half HW85 and half BSF55 --- check out the part numbers.

https://www.gunspares.co.uk/products...-55-NEW-MODEL/

This gun was sold in the States as the Marksman Model 70

http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.co...&by-date=false


So in effect the HW85 is the second Weihrauch reincarnation of the BSF55.




All the best Mick

Blimey, I am completely wrong! There it is, the hideous love-child of Weihrauch and BSF complete with HW Perfekt trigger blade and BSF trigger block!

I apologise to all whose theories I have dismissed and insulted.

But I was only doing it to flush out The Truth of course .

Now the world knows this truth I can sleep that bit easier.

(But I am sure that new model B55 rifle was never imported to the UK)

[I. J.]

New model BSF55 (Marksman Mod 70). Damn!

Thats another one Ive got to find.

ATB
Ian

[DNF]

Yes, Rod Lynton had it made up from the then new alloy called imaginarium and used it to shoot unirabbits (you know, the bunnies with a single golden narwal horn growing from their foreheads?) while listening to Spandau Ballet from his Ford Capri 2.8i.

I think you might have seen an advert for a BSF S80, which was BSF's last gasp aimed at the then-new sport of FT - a BSF S70 with an ugly hamsterised stock. Or possibly one of the BSF Venom specials, which might have been made up from the last few batches of parts.

There was no BSF/HW hybrid! I had all the AGWs from that era and its not in there.

I think it may have been more like 83 that I saw one.

Sorry about that,

matt