Holy Grails.

[Abasmajor]

My fairly late interest in collecting classic spring powered air pistols started with finding good examples of those from my youth which meant mainly those from Webley followed by some rarer but still seen enough to be within my reach. There were however four extremely rare models that I coveted but thought I would be lucky to come across never mind be able to afford. This changed when a casual visit to my local gun dealer who mainly sold modern air guns resulted in my obtaining an Anson Star which is probably the rarest pistol in collection at a price I would have been happy to pay for a nice Webley or more readily available model from another manufacturer.



Shortly after this, another of my Holy Grails appeared at auction which given the saving I had made on the Star encouraged me to pay the expected premium needed to get a Westley Richards Highest Possible Concentric on the rare occasion they seem appear on the market.



Encouraged by this I was lucky enough to find the third pistol on my list a Cogswell & Harrison Certus from an Arms Fair at Bisley also at what I considered a reasonable price.



Although probably seen a bit more often than the others, the AG Parker Crank Wound which was final pistol on my list took longer before finally being listed on-line by antique dealer some years later who was happy to sell it at a bargain price as it was out of his usual speciality.



I don’t have a limitless budget, but this just shows that with some luck and determination, even those items we think beyond our wildest expectations' can be found. Does anybody else have a Holy Grail they have found or are still chasing ?

Brian

[Graemevw]

I know little of old pistols, but they are all fabulous.
Love the parker.
Have no idea how the cogswell works!

My holy grails are all easily found, my issue is justifying the expenditure.

[AC all day]

I have had my Holy grails quashed by legislation all I wanted was a Steve Harper pipe and pen.... No chance!

[vintage]

My fairly late interest in collecting classic spring powered air pistols started with finding good examples of those from my youth which meant mainly those from Webley followed by some rarer but still seen enough to be within my reach. There were however four extremely rare models that I coveted but thought I would be lucky to come across never mind be able to afford. This changed when a casual visit to my local gun dealer who mainly sold modern air guns resulted in my obtaining an Anson Star which is probably the rarest pistol in collection at a price I would have been happy to pay for a nice Webley or more readily available model from another manufacturer.



Shortly after this, another of my Holy Grails appeared at auction which given the saving I had made on the Star encouraged me to pay the expected premium needed to get a Westley Richards Highest Possible Concentric on the rare occasion they seem appear on the market.



Encouraged by this I was lucky enough to find the third pistol on my list a Cogswell & Harrison Certus from an Arms Fair at Bisley also at what I considered a reasonable price.



Although probably seen a bit more often than the others, the AG Parker Crank Wound which was final pistol on my list took longer before finally being listed on-line by antique dealer some years later who was happy to sell it at a bargain price as it was out of his usual speciality.



I don’t have a limitless budget, but this just shows that with some luck and determination, even those items we think beyond our wildest expectations' can be found. Does anybody else have a Holy Grail they have found or are still chasing ?

Brian

Nice collection

[Jerry Cornelius]

I think the concentric highest possible would probably be my grail pistol.

Though I would be willing to settle for a Giffard pistol.

[Geezer]

Not really my thing (thankfully, otherwise I’d have even more airguns and less money) but good finds and a nice collection.

[Abasmajor]

I know little of old pistols, but they are all fabulous.
Love the parker.
Have no idea how the cogswell works!

My holy grails are all easily found, my issue is justifying the expenditure.

The Certus works in a similar manner to the Webley design but the barrel is moved in the reverse direction (front to back) to cock the pistol. It was made by the well known English sporting gun maker Cogswell & Harrison. Production numbers were very low with probably less than 500 being produced around 1929-1930 in an attempt to compete with the all conquering Webley design. There is quite a strong possibility that production ceased after Webley threatened legal action for infringement of their famous patent 219872 which is the basis of the Webley overlever cocking pistol design. The Webley patent 219872 does in fact cover the possibility of using the barrel to cock the pistol in the reverse manner to the conventional method but this was rejected as not being a practical proposition. The Certus is one of only three pistols that I know of that is loaded by a tap similar to the BSA air rifle these being the Certus, Abasmajor & a version of the Lincoln Jeffries pistol.
The Certus was Cogswell & Harrison's only venture into the world of air gun design and although well made the relatively delicate mechanism and inelegant appearance provided little threat to the Webley.

[Graemevw]

The Certus works in a similar manner to the Webley design but the barrel is moved in the reverse direction (front to back) to cock the pistol. It was made by the well known English sporting gun maker Cogswell & Harrison. Production numbers were very low with probably less than 500 being produced around 1929-1930 in an attempt to compete with the all conquering Webley design. There is quite a strong possibility that production ceased after Webley threatened legal action for infringement of their famous patent 219872 which is the basis of the Webley overlever cocking pistol design. The Webley patent 219872 does in fact cover the possibility of using the barrel to cock the pistol in the reverse manner to the conventional method but this was rejected as not being a practical proposition. The Certus is one of only three pistols that I know of that is loaded by a tap similar to the BSA air rifle these being the Certus, Abasmajor & a version of the Lincoln Jeffries pistol.
The Certus was Cogswell & Harrison's only venture into the world of air gun design and although well made the relatively delicate mechanism and inelegant appearance provided little threat to the Webley.

Thanks for the explination. It's a crazy looking thing.
Do you know with it wasn't designed with the barrel parallel to the cylinder?

[Abasmajor]

Thanks for the explination. It's a crazy looking thing.
Do you know with it wasn't designed with the barrel parallel to the cylinder?

The barrel is parallel to the cylinder when returned after cocking the pistol. The picture shows the barrel in the just unlocked position prior to being used to cock the pistol.
The Certus always reminds me of something put together by Wallis & Grommet rather than a renowned English gunmaker, but it is an interesting and quirky design which appeals to me.

Brian

[Graemevw]

The barrel is parallel to the cylinder when returned after cocking the pistol. The picture shows the barrel in the just unlocked position prior to being used to cock the pistol.
The Certus always reminds me of something put together by Wallis & Grommet rather than a renowned English gunmaker, but it is an interesting and quirky design which appeals to me.

Brian

I did wonder if that might be the case. Wasn't immediately obvious looking at the barrel catch.


Edit...
Quick Google search and now I want a certus target!

[Unframed Dave]

For me, it's a pair. Giffard duelling pistols.

That and a ball reservoir pistol.

Dave

[Geezer]

Any views on how well - or not - they shoot, especially compared to a Webley Mk1?

[oldcurmudgeon]

My personal Grail was a Webley Tomahawk in .25 and thanks to the legendary KB this was achieved.

[Garvin]

The Certus works in a similar manner to the Webley design but the barrel is moved in the reverse direction (front to back) to cock the pistol. It was made by the well known English sporting gun maker Cogswell & Harrison. Production numbers were very low with probably less than 500 being produced around 1929-1930 in an attempt to compete with the all conquering Webley design. There is quite a strong possibility that production ceased after Webley threatened legal action for infringement of their famous patent 219872 which is the basis of the Webley overlever cocking pistol design. The Webley patent 219872 does in fact cover the possibility of using the barrel to cock the pistol in the reverse manner to the conventional method but this was rejected as not being a practical proposition. The Certus is one of only three pistols that I know of that is loaded by a tap similar to the BSA air rifle these being the Certus, Abasmajor & a version of the Lincoln Jeffries pistol.
The Certus was Cogswell & Harrison's only venture into the world of air gun design and although well made the relatively delicate mechanism and inelegant appearance provided little threat to the Webley.

It's a wonderful group, Brian.

In a way I find the Certus most interesting because C&H shotguns were elegant and competitive but what were they thinking with this pistol?! Did they really believe it could compete with Webley and if so, why? I can only imagine what the shotgun makers in the company said at the time, knowing full well this venture was doomed.

What happened to its creators when the product failed, I wonder, as it was always destined to do? Were they sacked, given other things to do, with the Certus a stain on their records?

Is there contemporary comment in the trade journals, talking about the Certus's chances of success? It should be called the Certain - certain to fail!

Edit: I've just read my Griffiths book about the Certus and it turns out it was the baby of company (managing?) director Edgar Harrison and was priced to compare with the Webley. Of course he wouldn't sack himself when the Certus sold badly and was phased out... so presumably nobody received any retribution, however well deserved.

[DrGunn]

That’s a great collection of interesting and unusual air pistols, the Anson Star and AG Park Crank Wound are particularly fascinating.

I’ve not been collecting all that long and so far most of my purchases have been opportunistic. Of the guns I’ve actively looked for, the one which took the longest to find in good order and at an affordable price is pretty modern and not all that rare - a Feinwerkbau 103. Now I’ve got one I can see why they come up for sale so infrequently, I certainly won’t be letting go of mine in a hurry.