The Artemis P15

[Racing]

Inspired by the PR-900 build i thought to myself, what about the slightly more expensive Artemis/Diana guns?

Looked around, quite a bit actually, before coming to settle on that a bullpup could be nice for a change. Ergo the Artemis P15.
The P35, 40 and what not are simply not imported up here for whatever reason so.. P15 it is.

Put an ad up that i WTB and as chance has it good friend Sverker came to hollar!



By his own wording it seems this piece of kit ended up here through Holland, with all that brings. Ie; an "unlimited" gun from the onset. Barrel has been replaced by a slightly longer Lothar Walter unit here in country though, coming all in at approx 540mm. Yep, in 22cal.
Diving into the piece i´ve actually come to entertain the idea of swapping calibers for a "non 12 foot pound" one, as that´s doable to me.. Hm.

Anyways.
Thing showed up and in "good" working order. Sverker shipped it together with what he thought would be a 10J spring buuuut... XXXX that gave me a laugh! Firing a clip out of it, bullets didn´t even reach the target 20 meters out!

Impressions though. As many of you are aware the P15 is a REALLY small gun. Feather light to that. Like.. a toy. It´s anything but though.
Replaced the hammer spring with what the piece was delivered with from the onset, and that made for a ... difference. LOL
Tweaked it a bit vs my LabRadar and came to rest at a given power level, and took the piece ratting as such - loaded with hollow point slugs. For whatever reason that night handed one mere rat, but a rather sturdy one. Hit the thing once and it jumped around a tad before settling. Indeed, slugs need a bit of speed before doing their thing.

So. Barrel swapped for a "better" one and a few Darko Dell clips thrown in for good measure. I can very well see the reason ppl/shooters turn to these vs the stock jobbies, i really can.
That is however not the same as that the stockers are worthless - as some claim. On the contrary i´d say but.. for starters keep them clean (stockers that is)!

Speaking of which i indeed cleaned the barrel out with a few patches and took to zeroing the thing with this generic 4-12*44 whatever. Laser beam comes to mind.. Slugs or pellets of 25,4 grains no matter. This thing shoots TIGHT.

Nah. Fact is that the more i shot the thing, used it, the more it grew on me.

One thing though once and for all!! Us vikings boys are often like 6footX. Me too, and at that like 220lbs. So yeah. Not a "big boy" but certainly "grown up" and the P15 is simply to short in my hands to get a decent purchase on the thing. Nope. Not by much, but shouldering the thing IS a strain, and yes... i certainly know how to.





Yeah. The Delcos.. What gets me about them is their simplicity. I like that. Not that "for dummies" but more so that i happen to be an engineer and good engineering is making something really complex simple and/or making something really expensive cheap. Well.This sure fills bill No1 (and TBH they´re not that expensive either).
So in my book the Delcos are worth every dime, especially so seeing what the original pieces run.





I happen to be a sucker for blued steel and walnut. Just me i guess, but albeit the P15 is to a degree.. I still fail to see why Artemis covers that German beech wood up as they do. I just don´t get it, can´t be anymore expensive to apply them layers of grainfiller and.. whatever that top coat is than to dye the thing and hand it oil.
Well. A beauty contest that stock will NOT bring home. I´ll tell you that much. Not that i find it ugly, i just think it´s extremely... mundane. For no reason what so ever.



Not only are the Artemis guns REAL light in weight, this one sports a combined shroud and moderator too and TBH.. it does a rather good job at it in my opinion. Yes, all to aware of our American friend Aaron and his hair curler setup - and what not, which i´ve played around with myself, but for a stock solution i find the gun rather quiet - no matter the power level.
Innards, the shroud is what it is and fed via an adapter on the muzzle end of the barrel while the moderator keeps a whole stack of steel sheet metal cones. For THIS particular gun Sverker handed me all in all three shrouds, the original included. What´s on the gun right now though is a carbon fibre one.



Barrel is a unit that sports a brass chamber end. For better for worse i guess, and as such simpler to play around with to someone like me. Boys had been at it though why it leaked insane amounts, something i came to remedy after a few shots to zero and that first night of pesting. It was to the point where you could dry your hair firing the thing!



This then the "typical" Artemis approach to the poppet within. The ones i´ve played around with all have their seat material move as power is .."moved around", so in short this (again) is a no-can-do to me.
In turn the thing leaked between the actual valve seat and the valve body too.



Valve block is a rather straight forward proposition i guess, that really lacks any and all "tight rope stuff" like anti bounce devices and what not. Saving air is always a criteria why i guess i´ll fab a SSG setup for this gun too and at that i´m looking into a "shrouded" and spring loaded hammer (so called floating hammer) setup as well (those not in the loop, check Youtube for instance).
Thing here is that the P15 is a regulated gun, while a design of "yesterday". It sports a 265cc-ish tank i believe ( correct me if i´m off) and as such.. both regulated and "limited" vs the last era guns and capacity.. I think it´s a good idea keeping air from just being blown out the muzzle to no good.
So a SSG and a "floating" hammer might very well be it.. On the SSG (ie; a "trapped" hammer spring that lets you set spring preload and hammer free flight both) most certainly so. On the floating hammer.. i´ll just see where the SSG takes me for starters. (Mark. A SSG setup to cater to a given power level MUST be setup vs a chronograf to keep the package within limits of the law)

This gun is in turn indeed regulated. Some replace that reg at the drop of a hat for whatever reason. Humas and whatever.. The little i´ve seen vs the LabRadar of mine, no need. These days though ppl go all ape on plenum volume, and therein lies a challenge as far as "tube installed regs" in my book cause as soon as you increase plenum volume (for whatever reason really) it will interfere with tank capacity. In short, remains to be settled how i handle that.

If we regard the industry of current on a whole however we see it moving vs less and less regulator pressure and larger and larger plenum volumes for a given performance level. Be it 12 footpounds or 80 Joules, no matter, whatever. Good or bad? Well. The less the pressure no doubt the calmer the gun to use, let´s put it that way.




Cutout for the clip is REAL tight why keeping that bronze barrel end up to snuff becomes imperative. Lathe time if you ask me. The probe in turn is a rather small diameter jobbie as is and i doubt modifying it will amount to all that much, that said me going to hand this thing hollowpoint slugs as primary fudder.
But.. whatever. For those of you in the market for a higher end barrel for these things, something to keep in mind - as is port alignment for that matter (again - keeping the gun efficient if nothing else).
Barrel is held in by one sole grub screw why i at least find it reasonable to "dimple" that brass barrel end fitting by drilling into it ever so slightly. That way the grub screw gets something to hold on to so to say/register, and will always end up in the same place just you align it.

[Racing]

Carbon fibre indeed. Might seem a bit plush only but in reality aluminium as well as steel "pings" upon firing, while carbon fibre IME does not. It´s from that aspect a more "dead" material why it´ll add to the total package as i regard it. Ie; keep the gun even more silent.
Although i do make my own moderators what i´ll at the most do in the case of this P15 is to play around with the existing design already on there. No need to reinvent the wheel.



For some reason, dovetail only. Guess this is where the designs age show? No matter, i had an Eberstark 6-24*50 laying around and to me where i live the truth of the matter is that Weaver/Pic style rings are plentyful while 11mm dovetails are not. To go with the setup and to get reasonably high pitch count on the screws holding that Pic rail in place i drilled and tapped for 10-32UNF.



"Pressure gauge up front of the tube takes a special socket!" Yeah. Whatever. Not going to sit around waiting for that when i´ve got a lathe standing. So a regular 24mm socket turned down and presto. Them gauges are hand tight items after all.



Yeah. Leaking valve seat. I´m all aware of the original setup. But to keep from leaking no more i turned a fresh one out of POM. Going to reinvestigate that though.. Don´t know where that´ll end as of current. What i DO know though is that the stock setup is out. Fact is, hole in the block has already been arbored out to 10mm flat.



To for instance get better control of hammer bounce.. use a different spring and/or a tad of different thinking. Spring i replaced with one for an FX Impact (them springs are btw made here in town at "Got springs") just.. that spring is of 10mm diameter so needed a new hammer to work. In turn to keep hammer weight a tad up i made the spring guide register on the hammer instead of the spring adjuster.
I anticipate this to hand me a smoother working setup. Tip of the hammer is of course hardened steel, which is needed seeing the poppets rather narrow 3mm stem. Hammer weight, total package, is hammer.. guide (as long as the guide rides with the hammer) hand half the spring.



Yeah, that.. and to alter with that Eberstark 6-24 i picked up a Pard NV008LRF. Have tried it on my Impact and have to admit to being impressed by it. Good unit!

What´s to come then?
Well. As you can imagine that stock will be reworked. First up i´m going to try putting a separate butt plate on a 6mm thick piece of aluminium to which i´ll bolt two stainless or aluminium rods, that i´ll drill the stock out rear to take. Then a rivnut of sorts or two i guess, for an adjustable setup as far as length of pull.
Again.. at 6´3 lenth of oull in stock shape and form is just folly.
In turn that finish has GOT to go. I´ll never understand the folk at Artemis doing that, but hey! That´s just me! Reshaping? Yes, most likely that too. A good rasp can alter things beyond belief no doubt.

Performance wise? Well, that´s out the realms for this forum i´ve understood but let it suffice that performance is part of the deal to me and it will be altered. "Somewhat"

I hope to have this thing back together to go test on it shortly.

[rapidresponse1]

great little guns

[Racing]

Yes they are.



Here the new two piece valve seat. Opted to as i modified the valve block within which made me crush into the sealing/seating surface for the "collar" of the stock piece.
While at i i opened up the hole for it too. To a 10mm even.
Seat out of POM with is press fit and will to that get glued in place with epoxy. The actual "body" of the seat can be taken out need be "backwards". Ie; via the hole for the hammer.

Might seem a little backwards the entire thing, but the thing is (and to refrain from seeing forum standards) that i strive for power levels a little different than most. Then this becomes.. needed, sry to say.

[Racing]

Got a grip on the leaks. The "loading port" at the top of the tank, simply swapped the o-ring for a fresh one.
At the bottom it was a matter of that with the new seat in place the threads of the tank bottomed out vs the new seat.



Yeah, she´s back together and it seems to all be in working order. However, as noted above, i believe i set the seat to shallow. The idea of mine with making the "valve seat" two part was on the money alright but.. need to cut the actual 45deg seat deeper into the POM/plastic as i don´t get enough poppet spindle protrusion the other end.

Just for trials hammering down on what DOES protrude lets off very limited bursts of air, so that needs to be remedied. That said the entire thing is as stated back together, and that on way more "healthy" dimensions vs stock.
Going to be real interesting to see what comes out of the bag.

Next deal up is some sort of thought through idea of a plenum. All to aware of the tank "length-eners" to be had and it might very well be i turn one but.. giving thought to an add on idea too - as in a separate cylinder.
First up to add plenum volume and second of all as that hands me a place to set a gauge that tells reg pressure on the fly.

[Rich]

I made a single shot loader for mine, also a custom cheek piece from a nice piece of timber.

https://i.imgur.com/vHRb0lY.jpg

The loader block pivots at the bottom corner, and there is a mini magnet set into it that mates against a m4 adjusting screw on the left hand side.

[Racing]

Wow.
Nice going on that cheek piece. What i have in mind is "recycling" as i´ve got a few pieces of old walnut off of some old Remington rolling block stocks laying around (actually a No of early Mauser stocks and what not as well)
That though looks almost lika briar root?
Nice!

Single adapter, sure! Why not. It´s been stated many a time that single loading to this day surpass magazine loading as far as accuracy so..

To me though these are tools primarily. For now 4 pcs of PCP, and i regard them all the same. Used the Impact with my Pard 008LRF to bag yet three rats tonight - for the better.

Work has pushed forward with this Artemis though.
At first i was real happy with running both the stem/poppet seal and the seat for the valve out of POM but.. got me thinking so today i fabbed and installed a seat out of Swedish JM7 bearing bronze. Rather tough material for a "yellow metal" and will no doubt outlive the gun. My thinking being that the JM metal has basically no give.. Turned out wonderful, tight as ever.
One thing that struck me though is how cramped for space the entry point of the valve block is. Where the tank bolts up. Hm..

Gun is back together but lacks the performance i expected and i believe i figured the reason as to why out late today. Hammer stroke is about non existent (saw about similar fps vs what i did at first).

Hammer spring WAY WAY WAY off being able to even remotely expand to length. Now, as hammer weight is dire shortening the thing (hammer) is out. I need to look into the poppet spindle that protrudes though, and anything more than 4-5mm is massive overkill in my book and i will thus shorten accordingly.
But.
To retain hammer weight as best as i can i will revert to the setup with the larger FX spring and then check total movement possible where after i will simply take out a 4-5mm end mill and drill myself into the head of the hammer the depth needed to keep stroke at a maximum while keeping that 4-5mm of "smash" for the valve poppet end.
Need be i´ll even knock the valve body out of there again and shorten that too. In essence its main task being to support/bearing surface for the poppet and the thing´s so tight that it won´t matter from a practical POW.

I was real surprised there at first, thinking WTF - after all that work invested. But.. then it dawned on me upon closer inspection. Ran out of time today though so will continue tomorrow. In my book every millmeter helps in this case.

Have no doubts what so ever i´ll reach my power goals all said and done.

[Racing]

Btw.
For rat control i believe i´ll run this ATN Aries for starters.



Solid unit although a tad on the heavy side, admitted. Here on my Impact but that one´s been awarded the Pard NV008 so.. Aries is leftovers..so why not?

[Racing]

Seeing MY goals a larger plenum volume is given.
Sure enough though that capacity can be used for low power guns as well, to make them run "leaner" at lower reg pressures.

In the case of the Artemis P15 this is no easy task to settle, but one thing´s for sure and that´s that the current crop of "tube length´rs" are just plain out. That massive a move for a few mere CC´s simply ain´t the solution bringing this rifle into the 2020´s.



As the tube itself will see only limited pressures it´s made out of regular 6086 aluminium with ample dimension end plugs. Yes, to be welded in. Press fit but with a V notch to cater for the weld.
in turn through holes to be closed up by weld as well.
End plugs of dimensions that will take not only the bungs needed, but will sure hand me a place to install a reg pressure manometer as well.



Right. So this thing hands me 80 very well needed CC´s. Thus it is of size, made out of 30*3 tubing - 170mm+ between the end plugs on the inside. Going to hook it up with regular tubing i thought, we´ll see where that ends.
Placement then?

Well. imagine it black to the color. Going to bolt it to the bracketry that´s there anyways for the scope, trigger, and "barrel band" setup. Attach it with a 10mm piece of pipe.

[rapidresponse1]

nice cheek piece

[Racing]

LOL.

Guys.



What IS it with me and the sear on Artemis guns? AGAIN made out of effing "chineseium".. hardened to insanity, brittle accordingly and yes.. WTF´s there to add really?
Crap.

Getting spares up here for the unit, justfugedaboutit.. So left to making one myself which i will out of SIS-2241 or SIS-2541. Either one´s as good for the application really and EITHER one will keep up with the heat!
This is just.. insane.

Anyways.
What about the project per se then?
Well. As you´re aware i have a different goal vs you guys and due that came to work the valve block.. everywhere.. This however, which became the main issue, made the actual seat 8mm and the poppet head/seal 9,2mm.
This became an issue because what ever i tossed at the thing as far as hammer and spring, no dice. The LabRadar read 720fps approx.

So. I finally caved in and pulled the poppet out of there and tossed it on the lathe cutting its major outer diameter down to 8,5mm.
Presto. With the original hammer and spring albeit with a brass guide that resides in the hammer by me (which ups the weight slightly and has a "foot" to it approx 1/8" (Ie; 3mm) thick which will affect preload..
Yeah well, the 25,4 grain JSB came to exit the correct side of 1000 all of a sudden. In short this has been a lesson learned and although the through hole on the valve seat is a full 8mm i´m going to chance this and narrow the seal down a tad more. That.. and.. my own hammer and FX Impact spring.
My main objective is three fold.
A light gun.
An accurate gun (with slugs)
A reasonably powerful PCP, within adjustment. Ie; to sport between 10 and 100..
To keep power down is easy. Getting it up there, from time to time another matter and the idea is thus for 34grain pills for this dear little huffer that could.

But. As stated, lesson learned. From that respect the pressure in the tank will make the most of every fraction of a millimeter.. In short this is a balance game, and i sure stepped across the balance point.

[grieva]

Can't believe my work bench could have featured on here, I have one just like it, lol.

[Racing]

*terror reigns*



My benches, yes plural, always look like a bomb went off. Thus i don´t tidy. I sanitize once a week...

[Racing]

Worth mentioning, to say the least, as there´s certain to be other P15 owners out there that can use it...

https://www.milidonis.gr/en/c/airgun...dHLR2wzLOacPW8

Here. Spares for anything Artemis. Sear for the P15 is 2€5o. TAKE MY MONEY!

[Racing]

So.
Came to cut me a sear from SIS-2541 steel. Took a little finesse but.. we´re there.

The trigger assy of the P15 though is a sorts of a "weighed" unit and carries all in all three parts/levers and a spring. What gives is that as hammer spring tension is increased the setup simply won´t cater to that, so need to balance that off way better i believe.
Flip side of that though is that i believe that also brings that i have to recut a few of the angles at hand as increasing spring tension (rather small and meek spring) also increases needed pull weight to make the thing go off. Both that and to cock it.

No worries though, we´ll sort that out too time permitting.



That there though used tp be an issue. The brass end of it being of a diameter that rendered it impossible to cut a front o-ring groove (IOW massive air leak), so the solution was to increase the hole for the barrel end on the valve block and then turn a larger diameter brass ending for it.
Turned out golden TBH, but now i´m giving thought to adding a set screw or two more..(actually ditto for the PR-900 i´ve got too). Although fit is good i still feel it wouldn´t hurt to be able to crank down on it LESS for each screw (and thereby lessen any distortion that might take place). Then again.. it´s most likely just me being overly sensitive on the matter i guess.