Semis

[Racing]

Wonder if any of you gents keep a semi automatic?
Under permit or not.

Been offered this rather nice 25cal Kral down in Slovakia i´m considering. Before anyone drives that nail any further, nope.. fully automatic guns are competely pointless as far as i´m concerned.
Might keep an entertainment value for 30mins, but that´s it. Toys.

Semi automatics though are another matter. Quick follow ups while keeping your eye on target through it all.

Being familar with gas operated systems on powder guns i´m kind of curious how the manufacturers set that there up with PCP semi automatics.
Are semi PCP´s as accurate as their bolt system brothers?

[T 20]

Hi Jesper

Unfortunately, it is not legal to own and use a true semi automatic air rifle in the UK, but it seems that we are allowed to own and use "Self Indexing" air rifles such as the Steyr Hunter 5 SA.

Semi auto - appears to be classed when the pellet is fired whilst already in the barrel.

Self indexing - appears to be classed when the pellet is fired from the magazine into the barrel.



I'm no expert on this, but this should give you the general idea, and hopefully other members will correct me if I'm wrong.



All the best Mick

[eyebull]

Hi Jesper

Unfortunately, it is not legal to own and use a true semi automatic air rifle in the UK, but it seems that we are allowed to own and use "Self Indexing" air rifles such as the Steyr Hunter 5 SA.

Semi auto - appears to be classed when the pellet is fired whilst already in the barrel.

Self indexing - appears to be classed when the pellet is fired from the magazine into the barrel.



I'm no expert on this, but this should give you the general idea, and hopefully other members will correct me if I'm wrong.



All the best Mick

Odd that the semi-auto ban has so many exceptions - shotgun, rimfire, LBPs.
Don't particularly miss it on air-rifles (would be good for ratting but not much else?), though the idea of a Two Gun action air match is intriguing...

[angrybear]

Personally I can shoot the 12 shot mag of my Rapid as accurate single aimed shots in well under a minute,
so I can't see the practical need for a semi-auto air rifle due to the loss of accuracy.

Having said that I do have a semi-auto .22lr, but in rapid fire accuracy drops to 4" groups.

[Racing]

There you go, had no idea.
Live and learn i guess. To us up here they´re ok.

Yes. Any appreciable form of accuracy loss of course an issue, hence why i asked.

[Racing]

Mick.
If i get you correct that would bring that a rifle like the Huben K1 would be legal in Britain?
It indeed fires each pellet from its revolving magazine. As far as i´ve understood they designed it such that each "chamber" is exactly that. Ie; the barrel has none while the mag is. Forcing cone i guess is entry of barrel?

Don´t get me wrong here, but kind of peculiar that a semi auto ban came to include air rifles? Not getting into politics but.. weird in my book.

[gingernut]

There is a bit of a legal argument there

Comes from the fact that in the UK airguns are firearms

So when firearm legislation is passed it applies to airguns
Whether it was intended to or not

[eyebull]

There is a bit of a legal argument there

Comes from the fact that in the UK airguns are firearms

So when firearm legislation is passed it applies to airguns
Whether it was intended to or not

How does that square with the exceptions listed above - rimfire, shotgun, LBPs - do they have a specific exemption?
I mean it's all academic because I suspect that manufacturers and importers aren't inclined to open this particular can of worms, just curious.

[Turnup]

How does that square with the exceptions listed above - rimfire, shotgun, LBPs - do they have a specific exemption?
I mean it's all academic because I suspect that manufacturers and importers aren't inclined to open this particular can of worms, just curious.

Yes there are specific exemptions for semi auto firearms in .22 rimfire, and for shotguns, which meet the size criteria.

I am far from convinced that the legislation does prohibit semi-auto air guns which are less than 6/12 fpe since the legislation states clearly that these are not subject to licencing - the legislation later moves the non exempted semi firearms into S5, but since it has already exempted sub 6/12 sirguns from licencing then I don't see how a semi airgun would need an S5 licence. The weasel reasoning that has been applied here has, as far as I know, not been tested in court and it seems that, as you say, the airgun industry in the UK has no appetite to do so.

[gingernut]

I think that is spot on Turnup

Also saved me having to give my brain a workout

[Solvo]

I had a fair few discussions when the Steyr H5 SA came out and my FLO was of the same opinion that Self Indexing is fine for now. The legislation does specify self loading so the action is not permitted any direct interaction with the ammunition prior to firing.
Lining up a shot to be fired does appear to be allowed under the current law whereas a rifle that had say an automatic probe that pushed the pellet forward then fired would be an S5.

It's likely that this is only allowed because there's no modern firearm that exploits the option. Only two that come close are Revolvers and those are covered under the pistol specific parts.
I asked before about a self indexing muzzle loader design i was drafting, and was told that while technically legal it would be banned if it went into production. Same reason we don't have a Gatling Air rifle, while it's technically legal it certainly wouldn't be for long after it went on sale. See also the MARS / Lever Release mess where it was legal right up until a few hundred were imported and the legislation was updated to ban them.

I was able to legally import one of the early H5 SA models under the current law without any additional licencing needs. Providing the Kral uses a similar mechanism where the pellet remains in the magazine and is fired from it directly I see no reason to think that has changed.

I wouldn't want to test the 'order' of the firearms definitions. Just because something is classed as a sub 12ft/lb air rifle does not mean it couldn't also be classed as an S5 self loading rifled firearm. Personally id see it as a bit of a black-ball deal. Fail any one of those legality tests and it's out, as an FAC holder I don't intend to risk my license to find out for sure.

[colin g]

What about automatic air rifles please guys,, I have a few fairground shooting star rifles left to sell that are fully auto, The Tommy Gun ones.
Is it because they work off a compressor at low psi so dont come under the jurisdiction of air rifles or pistols. Not had any problem selling them as soon as i list one but it would be interesting to know why they are not on the banned list. They certainly pack a punch when the psi is turned up. Really good fun now that protek supplies have the ammo in bulk at 10,000 for £90.00 + Vat. Around a Penny a shot...

[eyebull]

What about automatic air rifles please guys,, I have a few fairground shooting star rifles left to sell that are fully auto, The Tommy Gun ones.
Is it because they work off a compressor at low psi so dont come under the jurisdiction of air rifles or pistols. Not had any problem selling them as soon as i list one but it would be interesting to know why they are not on the banned list. They certainly pack a punch when the psi is turned up. Really good fun now that protek supplies have the ammo in bulk at 10,000 for £90.00 + Vat. Around a Penny a shot...

I know airsoft guns are exempt if under 1.3J for semi-auto and under 2.5J for full auto. What kind of BBs are they shooting?

[Rich]

Don't worry too much about loss of accuracy, I believe that is in the mind more than in reality.

I too imported a H5A from Holland at a time when their availability here was in doubt. If you have never tried one, then let me say they are a lot of fun, and a joy to own.

Mine got sold on after about a year or so when various voices in this industry were insistent on poking their sticks into the sleeping lion's ear and trying to get the HO to make a firm decision about the legality, I suspect they wouldn't have minded a decision that banned them. Remember the HO had already given guidance that despite the anomaly that the wording of the Act had created, nobody would be prosecuted purely for possession.

The second reason for parting with mine was, in competition I could not separate the H5A's results from those of my modified S410. And I could take the S410 to Bisley and nobody would turn a hair, but I was reluctant to appear there with a rifle that some folk considered illegal to own.

Back to accuracy, here's a card shot at 20 yards standing, three consecutive magazines through the Steyr, that's fifteen shots in all. https://i.imgur.com/3bYa2Vv.jpg

[colin g]

I know airsoft guns are exempt if under 1.3J for semi-auto and under 2.5J for full auto. What kind of BBs are they shooting?

Standard 4.4 Cal lead ball. Standard gallery gun ammo for the fairground industry i believe so you couldnt take your own 4.5 cal ammo and cheat the stall owners..