Semis

[Racing]

Wonder if any of you gents keep a semi automatic?
Under permit or not.

Been offered this rather nice 25cal Kral down in Slovakia i´m considering. Before anyone drives that nail any further, nope.. fully automatic guns are competely pointless as far as i´m concerned.
Might keep an entertainment value for 30mins, but that´s it. Toys.

Semi automatics though are another matter. Quick follow ups while keeping your eye on target through it all.

Being familar with gas operated systems on powder guns i´m kind of curious how the manufacturers set that there up with PCP semi automatics.
Are semi PCP´s as accurate as their bolt system brothers?

[T 20]

Hi Jesper

Unfortunately, it is not legal to own and use a true semi automatic air rifle in the UK, but it seems that we are allowed to own and use "Self Indexing" air rifles such as the Steyr Hunter 5 SA.

Semi auto - appears to be classed when the pellet is fired whilst already in the barrel.

Self indexing - appears to be classed when the pellet is fired from the magazine into the barrel.



I'm no expert on this, but this should give you the general idea, and hopefully other members will correct me if I'm wrong.



All the best Mick

[eyebull]

Hi Jesper

Unfortunately, it is not legal to own and use a true semi automatic air rifle in the UK, but it seems that we are allowed to own and use "Self Indexing" air rifles such as the Steyr Hunter 5 SA.

Semi auto - appears to be classed when the pellet is fired whilst already in the barrel.

Self indexing - appears to be classed when the pellet is fired from the magazine into the barrel.



I'm no expert on this, but this should give you the general idea, and hopefully other members will correct me if I'm wrong.



All the best Mick

Odd that the semi-auto ban has so many exceptions - shotgun, rimfire, LBPs.
Don't particularly miss it on air-rifles (would be good for ratting but not much else?), though the idea of a Two Gun action air match is intriguing...

[angrybear]

Personally I can shoot the 12 shot mag of my Rapid as accurate single aimed shots in well under a minute,
so I can't see the practical need for a semi-auto air rifle due to the loss of accuracy.

Having said that I do have a semi-auto .22lr, but in rapid fire accuracy drops to 4" groups.

[Racing]

There you go, had no idea.
Live and learn i guess. To us up here they´re ok.

Yes. Any appreciable form of accuracy loss of course an issue, hence why i asked.

[Racing]

Mick.
If i get you correct that would bring that a rifle like the Huben K1 would be legal in Britain?
It indeed fires each pellet from its revolving magazine. As far as i´ve understood they designed it such that each "chamber" is exactly that. Ie; the barrel has none while the mag is. Forcing cone i guess is entry of barrel?

Don´t get me wrong here, but kind of peculiar that a semi auto ban came to include air rifles? Not getting into politics but.. weird in my book.

[Solvo]

I had a fair few discussions when the Steyr H5 SA came out and my FLO was of the same opinion that Self Indexing is fine for now. The legislation does specify self loading so the action is not permitted any direct interaction with the ammunition prior to firing.
Lining up a shot to be fired does appear to be allowed under the current law whereas a rifle that had say an automatic probe that pushed the pellet forward then fired would be an S5.

It's likely that this is only allowed because there's no modern firearm that exploits the option. Only two that come close are Revolvers and those are covered under the pistol specific parts.
I asked before about a self indexing muzzle loader design i was drafting, and was told that while technically legal it would be banned if it went into production. Same reason we don't have a Gatling Air rifle, while it's technically legal it certainly wouldn't be for long after it went on sale. See also the MARS / Lever Release mess where it was legal right up until a few hundred were imported and the legislation was updated to ban them.

I was able to legally import one of the early H5 SA models under the current law without any additional licencing needs. Providing the Kral uses a similar mechanism where the pellet remains in the magazine and is fired from it directly I see no reason to think that has changed.

I wouldn't want to test the 'order' of the firearms definitions. Just because something is classed as a sub 12ft/lb air rifle does not mean it couldn't also be classed as an S5 self loading rifled firearm. Personally id see it as a bit of a black-ball deal. Fail any one of those legality tests and it's out, as an FAC holder I don't intend to risk my license to find out for sure.

[Rich]

Don't worry too much about loss of accuracy, I believe that is in the mind more than in reality.

I too imported a H5A from Holland at a time when their availability here was in doubt. If you have never tried one, then let me say they are a lot of fun, and a joy to own.

Mine got sold on after about a year or so when various voices in this industry were insistent on poking their sticks into the sleeping lion's ear and trying to get the HO to make a firm decision about the legality, I suspect they wouldn't have minded a decision that banned them. Remember the HO had already given guidance that despite the anomaly that the wording of the Act had created, nobody would be prosecuted purely for possession.

The second reason for parting with mine was, in competition I could not separate the H5A's results from those of my modified S410. And I could take the S410 to Bisley and nobody would turn a hair, but I was reluctant to appear there with a rifle that some folk considered illegal to own.

Back to accuracy, here's a card shot at 20 yards standing, three consecutive magazines through the Steyr, that's fifteen shots in all. https://i.imgur.com/3bYa2Vv.jpg

[gingernut]

Don't worry too much about loss of accuracy, I believe that is in the mind more than in reality.

I too imported a H5A from Holland at a time when their availability here was in doubt. If you have never tried one, then let me say they are a lot of fun, and a joy to own.

Mine got sold on after about a year or so when various voices in this industry were insistent on poking their sticks into the sleeping lion's ear and trying to get the HO to make a firm decision about the legality, I suspect they wouldn't have minded a decision that banned them. Remember the HO had already given guidance that despite the anomaly that the wording of the Act had created, nobody would be prosecuted purely for possession.

The second reason for parting with mine was, in competition I could not separate the H5A's results from those of my modified S410. And I could take the S410 to Bisley and nobody would turn a hair, but I was reluctant to appear there with a rifle that some folk considered illegal to own.

Back to accuracy, here's a card shot at 20 yards standing, three consecutive magazines through the Steyr, that's fifteen shots in all. https://i.imgur.com/3bYa2Vv.jpg

Mine is a delight

Not with my fellow shooters though

They hit a 70 yard bell once
I do it five times in seconds

20 yards standing results like yours need practice on my part

[angrybear]

Don't worry too much about loss of accuracy, I believe that is in the mind more than in reality.

I too imported a H5A from Holland at a time when their availability here was in doubt. If you have never tried one, then let me say they are a lot of fun, and a joy to own.

Mine got sold on after about a year or so when various voices in this industry were insistent on poking their sticks into the sleeping lion's ear and trying to get the HO to make a firm decision about the legality, I suspect they wouldn't have minded a decision that banned them. Remember the HO had already given guidance that despite the anomaly that the wording of the Act had created, nobody would be prosecuted purely for possession.

The second reason for parting with mine was, in competition I could not separate the H5A's results from those of my modified S410. And I could take the S410 to Bisley and nobody would turn a hair, but I was reluctant to appear there with a rifle that some folk considered illegal to own.

Back to accuracy, here's a card shot at 20 yards standing, three consecutive magazines through the Steyr, that's fifteen shots in all. https://i.imgur.com/3bYa2Vv.jpg

You misunderstand me slightly Rich,

Shooting single aimed shots a semi can be almost as accurate, but then if you're shooting single aimed shots you can do so just as fast using a bolt action or sidelever, just look at how fast Biathletes are.

What purpose does a semi auto have except to deliver extra rounds in the vague direction of the target as fast as the shooter can pull the trigger ?? and at that point you loose the accuracy.

[Rich]

That's what I was doing, shooting single aimed shots at a piece of cardboard. Precision not timed.

In my hands, the H5A gave me results on a par with my S410, as I said. I knew I had qualified for the last 8 nationally in the NSRA - ELEY competition and I had to make my mind up whether to take the H5A or the S410. The case to take the H5A would hinge on results, could I do better with it than with the S410. After weeks and weeks of practice and back to back testing, there was not a fag paper to separate them. So I took the S410 and that meant I didn't have a use for the H5A, so despite the enormous pleasure of ownership and shooting it, it had to go, especially as the legal situation was clouding over. It's an expensive rifle to have confiscated.

Edit: PS here's proof I took the S410 special. https://i.imgur.com/0YHLN0h.jpg

[eyebull]

You misunderstand me slightly Rich,

Shooting single aimed shots a semi can be almost as accurate, but then if you're shooting single aimed shots you can do so just as fast using a bolt action or sidelever, just look at how fast Biathletes are.

What purpose does a semi auto have except to deliver extra rounds in the vague direction of the target as fast as the shooter can pull the trigger ?? and at that point you loose the accuracy.

Would disagree slightly with that. Nothing at all is going to be faster at single aimed shots than a recoilless semi-auto PCP with a light trigger. Even operating a sidelever is going to move your sight picture and take your hand off the trigger.

[woodpigeon]

Hi Jesper

Unfortunately, it is not legal to own and use a true semi automatic air rifle in the UK, but it seems that we are allowed to own and use "Self Indexing" air rifles such as the Steyr Hunter 5 SA.

Semi auto - appears to be classed when the pellet is fired whilst already in the barrel.

Self indexing - appears to be classed when the pellet is fired from the magazine into the barrel.



I'm no expert on this, but this should give you the general idea, and hopefully other members will correct me if I'm wrong.



All the best Mick

this is correct,I have a Steyr semi auto and looked into the legality of owning one before getting one

[T 20]

this is correct,

Cheers Col.


All the best Mick

[Turnup]

this is correct,I have a Steyr semi auto and looked into the legality of owning one before getting one

I would be interested to learn more about this. As far as I ca see there is nothing in "Guidance...." about this so is it case law?