Semis

[gingernut]

Don't worry too much about loss of accuracy, I believe that is in the mind more than in reality.

I too imported a H5A from Holland at a time when their availability here was in doubt. If you have never tried one, then let me say they are a lot of fun, and a joy to own.

Mine got sold on after about a year or so when various voices in this industry were insistent on poking their sticks into the sleeping lion's ear and trying to get the HO to make a firm decision about the legality, I suspect they wouldn't have minded a decision that banned them. Remember the HO had already given guidance that despite the anomaly that the wording of the Act had created, nobody would be prosecuted purely for possession.

The second reason for parting with mine was, in competition I could not separate the H5A's results from those of my modified S410. And I could take the S410 to Bisley and nobody would turn a hair, but I was reluctant to appear there with a rifle that some folk considered illegal to own.

Back to accuracy, here's a card shot at 20 yards standing, three consecutive magazines through the Steyr, that's fifteen shots in all. https://i.imgur.com/3bYa2Vv.jpg

Mine is a delight

Not with my fellow shooters though

They hit a 70 yard bell once
I do it five times in seconds

20 yards standing results like yours need practice on my part

[angrybear]

Don't worry too much about loss of accuracy, I believe that is in the mind more than in reality.

I too imported a H5A from Holland at a time when their availability here was in doubt. If you have never tried one, then let me say they are a lot of fun, and a joy to own.

Mine got sold on after about a year or so when various voices in this industry were insistent on poking their sticks into the sleeping lion's ear and trying to get the HO to make a firm decision about the legality, I suspect they wouldn't have minded a decision that banned them. Remember the HO had already given guidance that despite the anomaly that the wording of the Act had created, nobody would be prosecuted purely for possession.

The second reason for parting with mine was, in competition I could not separate the H5A's results from those of my modified S410. And I could take the S410 to Bisley and nobody would turn a hair, but I was reluctant to appear there with a rifle that some folk considered illegal to own.

Back to accuracy, here's a card shot at 20 yards standing, three consecutive magazines through the Steyr, that's fifteen shots in all. https://i.imgur.com/3bYa2Vv.jpg

You misunderstand me slightly Rich,

Shooting single aimed shots a semi can be almost as accurate, but then if you're shooting single aimed shots you can do so just as fast using a bolt action or sidelever, just look at how fast Biathletes are.

What purpose does a semi auto have except to deliver extra rounds in the vague direction of the target as fast as the shooter can pull the trigger ?? and at that point you loose the accuracy.

[Rich]

That's what I was doing, shooting single aimed shots at a piece of cardboard. Precision not timed.

In my hands, the H5A gave me results on a par with my S410, as I said. I knew I had qualified for the last 8 nationally in the NSRA - ELEY competition and I had to make my mind up whether to take the H5A or the S410. The case to take the H5A would hinge on results, could I do better with it than with the S410. After weeks and weeks of practice and back to back testing, there was not a fag paper to separate them. So I took the S410 and that meant I didn't have a use for the H5A, so despite the enormous pleasure of ownership and shooting it, it had to go, especially as the legal situation was clouding over. It's an expensive rifle to have confiscated.

Edit: PS here's proof I took the S410 special. https://i.imgur.com/0YHLN0h.jpg

[eyebull]

You misunderstand me slightly Rich,

Shooting single aimed shots a semi can be almost as accurate, but then if you're shooting single aimed shots you can do so just as fast using a bolt action or sidelever, just look at how fast Biathletes are.

What purpose does a semi auto have except to deliver extra rounds in the vague direction of the target as fast as the shooter can pull the trigger ?? and at that point you loose the accuracy.

Would disagree slightly with that. Nothing at all is going to be faster at single aimed shots than a recoilless semi-auto PCP with a light trigger. Even operating a sidelever is going to move your sight picture and take your hand off the trigger.

[Rich]

Let me tell you why I tried the H5A. I was at a shoulder to shoulder LSR comp and the chap next to me was shooting a Ruger 10/22 semi. Where I would be letting off one shot every 30 seconds or so, he would go a minute or two then fire two or even three shots in quick succession. I asked him about his technique and he said, after the shot and the recoil cycle, if I am still on aim I fire another shot. You can't do that, you have to break position to cycle your bolt. That's my advantage, he said. First rule of target shooting, if the ret is on the bull, pull the trigger.

I wasn't interested in shooting a rimfire so I ordered a H5A.

But the H5A has such little recoil, the philosophy didn't work. I was not breaking position, but I was supporting the rifle in between shots with no respite.

Hence the reason why the S410 and the H5A were neck and neck.

[Rich]

I could get five shots off in under three seconds with absolute ease with the H5A.

[lonewolf]

The H5 SA well Rich i only will add to your comments in that the SA comes into its own not with quick fire paper punching even though its good fun,
The Hunting 5 nothing better for Vermin Hunting,what other type of rifle would dispatch 3 rabbits in less than 2 seconds,

[woodpigeon]

Hi Jesper

Unfortunately, it is not legal to own and use a true semi automatic air rifle in the UK, but it seems that we are allowed to own and use "Self Indexing" air rifles such as the Steyr Hunter 5 SA.

Semi auto - appears to be classed when the pellet is fired whilst already in the barrel.

Self indexing - appears to be classed when the pellet is fired from the magazine into the barrel.



I'm no expert on this, but this should give you the general idea, and hopefully other members will correct me if I'm wrong.



All the best Mick

this is correct,I have a Steyr semi auto and looked into the legality of owning one before getting one

[T 20]

this is correct,

Cheers Col.


All the best Mick

[BC312]

I always fancied one of the fair tommy guns, you had to shoot the star out, great fun.

What about automatic air rifles please guys,, I have a few fairground shooting star rifles left to sell that are fully auto, The Tommy Gun ones.
Is it because they work off a compressor at low psi so dont come under the jurisdiction of air rifles or pistols. Not had any problem selling them as soon as i list one but it would be interesting to know why they are not on the banned list. They certainly pack a punch when the psi is turned up. Really good fun now that protek supplies have the ammo in bulk at 10,000 for £90.00 + Vat. Around a Penny a shot...

[Solvo]

As for Why do we "need" semi auto, we don't.

I ordered one because it was different, I see high end rifles from Air-Arms, Daystate, FX etc. all day long, at that time no one had one of these.

I keep it because it's fun. Ultimately, that is the entire point of owning anything for this sport.
I can match the accuracy with my Mk4, but I cant load up 10 clips and saw apples in half or challenge myself on the texas star for hitting every target as it spins through.

There are new options for fun shooting when you have semi-auto as an option, but it's a choice and fun to me may not be fun to some others. I'm not about to say It's better than single shot purpose made target rifles or more useful than a S410 in the field. Everyone has their own idea of best and of fun.

So far it is being allowed, and while it's allowed I shall continue to enjoy it

[Turnup]

this is correct,I have a Steyr semi auto and looked into the legality of owning one before getting one

I would be interested to learn more about this. As far as I ca see there is nothing in "Guidance...." about this so is it case law?

[angrybear]

I would be interested to learn more about this. As far as I ca see there is nothing in "Guidance...." about this so is it case law?

It's down to the strict definition that a semi-auto shoots, re-cocks the action "and loads the next round from a magazine in to the breach/chamber ready to fire" on a single pull of the trigger.
In the UK that is only legal with .22 rimfire.

A self indexing gun is basically a revolver, the magazine turns to align the next pellet, but that pellet is not pre loaded in to the breach, therefore it does not fit the definition of "semi-automatic"

[T 20]

I would be interested to learn more about this. As far as I ca see there is nothing in "Guidance...." about this so is it case law?

I tend to go with this statement which was put out by Harry Preston of Steyr UK, and confirmed to be the case by North Yorkshire Police. :-



'Fantastic news from Steyr UK:
BREAKING NEWS!!!!
Today Monday 26th June 2017 we have officially been informed that the Steyr LP50 is indeed self indexing and not self loading as defined by section 57(2A) of the Firearms Act 1968. Therefore does not fall within any category of Section 5 or Section 1.
As the Steyr Hunting 5 Auto is the same mechanism and sub 12 foot pounds muzzle energy this also does not fall in the Section 5 category of self loading.
As a consequence we have ordered some Hunting 5 Autos . Will be on the website shortly for pre-order with deposit.'




This was taken as the green light for Steyr Hunter 5SA ownership.

Prior to this statement we deleted Hunter 5SA sales threads, afterwards they were allowed.




All the best Mick

[gingernut]

The North Yorkshire Police decided to have a go at the LP50 pistol which had been minding its own business in the UK for years

They seemed to think it could be powered up and used for crime

They may have been after the Hunting 5 and made a mistake

I believe they came to Bisley to discuss the pistol

After obtaining a pistol they sent it to NABIS who were probably busy with real guns

After some months NABIS told them the LP50 was self indexing not self loading

No doubt this cost a fortune but it made Harry Preston and Steyr happy, eventually.