American VS UK smoothness culture

[Hsing-ee]

If you look at the American websites, there is often mention of 'breaking in' springers, particularly triggers.

One article on the Beeman R7 went on to mention that cocking it was extremely difficult, i.e. it was galling and jamming on the cocking slot because of the usual HW lack of QC in this area. However, the owner said he was confident it would 'break in'.

Triggers are often said to 'break in' with use. Although I have owned few rifles from new, it is not a thing I have noticed.

The UK shooters don't mention this at all. In the old days there was a process of 'running in' a springer but this was really about getting the leather piston seal worn in and it's 'oil balance' equilibrated. Modern Uk shooters would most likely get the emery paper and files out if anything was noticeably rough.

It just seems to me that the American shooters are willing to put up with a lot of metal grinding on metal, with the odd one who will 'smear some moly' in the general area of the offending mechanism.

Aside from piston seals, what is the consensus on 'breaking in' a rifle?

[robs5230]

If you look at the American websites, there is often mention of 'breaking in' springers, particularly triggers.

One article on the Beeman R7 went on to mention that cocking it was extremely difficult, i.e. it was galling and jamming on the cocking slot because of the usual HW lack of QC in this area. However, the owner said he was confident it would 'break in'.

Triggers are often said to 'break in' with use. Although I have owned few rifles from new, it is not a thing I have noticed.

The UK shooters don't mention this at all. In the old days there was a process of 'running in' a springer but this was really about getting the leather piston seal worn in and it's 'oil balance' equilibrated. Modern Uk shooters would most likely get the emery paper and files out if anything was noticeably rough.

It just seems to me that the American shooters are willing to put up with a lot of metal grinding on metal, with the odd one who will 'smear some moly' in the general area of the offending mechanism.

Aside from piston seals, what is the consensus on 'breaking in' a rifle?

Anything galling ceratinly won't break in.
The R7/hw30 isn't really known for galling on the cocking slot. It galls on the underside of the cylinder before the slot, as does the 57 and 35.
The cocking slot galling comes about as a result of the delrin insert being fitted to the 99 (our version of the 50). It was designed to stop it galling in the same place as the 30,35 and 57, which it did.
But the delrin strip also changed the geometry of the cocking linkage and moved the problem to the cocking slot.

Your appreciation of breaking a rifle in, will also apply to most factory springers where they will have shot all the excess lube off after a good number of pellets. Hopefully at that point, the seal won't be too burnt and brittle to function.

[Hsing-ee]

Anything galling ceratinly won't break in.
The R7/hw30 isn't really known for galling on the cocking slot.

Mine did, it was shaving spirals of swarf off the outer surface of the comp tube for the length of the slot! Another I owned had a slot that was cut off true to the axis of the cylinder!

[eyebull]

Galling aside as I think that's a separate issue mostly limited to the HW30/99 series, I suspect this is related to unlimited power levels, and a culture - air afficionados excluded - of prioritising power over smoothness and shootability (Not to mention mostly lower retail prices expanding the window of what is acceptable performance from an off-the-shelf rifle). Any 'wearing in' an airgun needs is going to be made much more noticeable by being over-sprung.

IMO UK airgunners have benefited in many ways from the hard 12 ft/lb limit; it's put the emphasis on other aspects of performance. I'm sure I speak for many on here when I say that as long as power is sufficient for purpose it's really the lowest priority for me when tuning an airgun.

Oddly we seem to be outliers in this respect, even when compared to UK Airsofters, many of whom don't seem to have got the memo about stupid big springs behind the piston not really being It. In airsoft the modders culture seems to be cramming the biggest spring they can in their AEGs, and then playing catch-up replacing and upgrading gearbox components as they crumble under the pressure. Very little emphasis on smoothness or shootability even though you would expect an AEG to respond favourably to the kind of treatment we give springers.

Likewise though there are connoisseurs in the US, much of the talk seems to be about how many FPS you can screw out of an airgun, when if we're being honest UK power levels are quite sufficient (and occasionally a bit much) for plinking in suburban gardens.

[angrybear]

I suspect the heavier springs used for the extra "FAC" power of US guns would cause issues & characteristics, not experienced on a lower power UK sub 12 rifle.

[TonyL]

Anything galling ceratinly won't break in.
The R7/hw30 isn't really known for galling on the cocking slot. It galls on the underside of the cylinder before the slot, as does the 57 and 35.
The cocking slot galling comes about as a result of the delrin insert being fitted to the 99 (our version of the 50). It was designed to stop it galling in the same place as the 30,35 and 57, which it did.
But the delrin strip also changed the geometry of the cocking linkage and moved the problem to the cocking slot.

Your appreciation of breaking a rifle in, will also apply to most factory springers where they will have shot all the excess lube off after a good number of pellets. Hopefully at that point, the seal won't be too burnt and brittle to function.

Galling aside as I think that's a separate issue mostly limited to the HW30/99 series, I suspect this is related to unlimited power levels, and a culture - air afficionados excluded - of prioritising power over smoothness and shootability (Not to mention mostly lower retail prices expanding the window of what is acceptable performance from an off-the-shelf rifle). Any 'wearing in' an airgun needs is going to be made much more noticeable by being over-sprung.

IMO UK airgunners have benefited in many ways from the hard 12 ft/lb limit; it's put the emphasis on other aspects of performance. I'm sure I speak for many on here when I say that as long as power is sufficient for purpose it's really the lowest priority for me when tuning an airgun.

Oddly we seem to be outliers in this respect, even when compared to UK Airsofters, many of whom don't seem to have got the memo about stupid big springs behind the piston not really being It. In airsoft the modders culture seems to be cramming the biggest spring they can in their AEGs, and then playing catch-up replacing and upgrading gearbox components as they crumble under the pressure. Very little emphasis on smoothness or shootability even though you would expect an AEG to respond favourably to the kind of treatment we give springers.

Likewise though there are connoisseurs in the US, much of the talk seems to be about how many FPS you can screw out of an airgun, when if we're being honest UK power levels are quite sufficient (and occasionally a bit much) for plinking in suburban gardens.

Agreed.

I would generally regard running in as the piston seal bedding in and the spring (and its ends) and any settling of the spring. Depending on fit / tolerances, generally 500 to 2000 shots? And can be influenced by considered, intelligent tuning.

I like the referencing to the Airsoft scene......kinda reminds me of much of the thinking surrounding our scene in the late 70s / early 80s by some.

[evert]

One blog post is probably not representative for everything that happens on the US continent
Paul Watts, a well known american tuner, did an article som time back on why even the WH30/R7 needs work if you want it to work as good as possible and last as long as possible.

"Breaking in" means three things to me: Burning off excess lubricants, wearing in piston seals, and the spring setting and getting slightly bent so it fits tighter on the loose factory guide.