How old is Vintage?

[Geezer]

Probably! I remember a gunshop owner telling me a few years ago that he sold hardly any quality airguns and that almost all of his sales were of Chinese imports...

I suspect “‘twas ever thus”. Even by the 70s, the bargain basement end of the market was quite congested with Relums, cheaper Milbro Dianas, Chinese “Lions” and “Arrows”, Baikal IJs, lower-end Gamos and Cometas, “Panther” pistols, and so on.

[edbear2]

Probably! I remember a gunshop owner telling me a few years ago that he sold hardly any quality airguns and that almost all of his sales were of Chinese imports...

A few years ago now a lad at work was told I had airguns and asked if I could "Line up his telescope" so he could hit things, I asked what he did and he said just targets and cans in his garden, so I told him about backstops / pellets leaving the boundry / alarm and distress and keeping in with the neighbours etc.

It was a Chinese SMK / Lion whatever break barrel, with the creasote effect stock and a strap swivel on the stock, I got it as best I could with the Spitfire pellets he had, and he was happy as Larry.

I had a HW35 at the time in the workshop and said to try it, and he could see that it looked "a bit better I spose" when pressed but otherwise after shooting it exclaimed "I can't tell the difference mate".

So many folk are happy with cheaper stuff for their persuits I suppose, and some can't imagine how something more expensive and well made could be any better at all, I was quite taken aback actually.

ATB, Ed

[Robert j]

What if you provide an air gun with new parts, is it still antique or vintage? And if so, what if you made an authentic gun from 100-year-old steel?

[Jerry Cornelius]

What if you provide an air gun with new parts, is it still antique or vintage?

I don’t know how you would say that in Germany, but in the uk we would say that was Trigger’s broom.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LAh8HryVaeY

[enfield2band]

What if you provide an air gun with new parts, is it still antique or vintage? And if so, what if you made an authentic gun from 100-year-old steel?

If you put new parts on a gun it would still be antique or vintage. For example- if you got an antique Brown Bess musket and the stock was rotting and full of woodworm you can put a reproduction stock on and it is still an antique.

If you made any item from 100 year old steel it would be the date of manufacture that determines the age.

[Robert j]

If you put new parts on a gun it would still be antique or vintage. For example- if you got an antique Brown Bess musket and the stock was rotting and full of woodworm you can put a reproduction stock on and it is still an antique.

So the other way around would an old stock but with all metal parts reproduced still be antique or vintage?

[Jerry Cornelius]

If you put new parts on a gun it would still be antique or vintage. For example- if you got an antique Brown Bess musket and the stock was rotting and full of woodworm you can put a reproduction stock on and it is still an antique.

If you made any item from 100 year old steel it would be the date of manufacture that determines the age.

I would not agree with this. The musket would be an original action in a modern stock. For me the whole gun coujd not be called “antique “ any more

If a minor part had been replaced like a spring or screw, that would be different

[Josie & John]

I would not agree with this. The musket would be an original action in a modern stock. For me the whole gun coujd not be called “antique “ any more

If a minor part had been replaced like a spring or screw, that would be different

I agree.

Furthermore, if an antique item is refinished all over, I would not feel comfortable as describing it as a genuine antique. It becomes neither modern nor antique, but something in between. Just think - all that history lost forever by being covered with a modern finish.

John

[enfield2band]

So the other way around would an old stock but with all metal parts reproduced still be antique or vintage?

If the barrel was rusted away and replaced with reproduced parts it would become a reproduction gun subject to the firearms act. The manufacturing date is for the barrel and action not the woodwork and fittings.

[enfield2band]

I would not agree with this. The musket would be an original action in a modern stock. For me the whole gun coujd not be called “antique “ any more

If a minor part had been replaced like a spring or screw, that would be different

I agree.

Furthermore, if an antique item is refinished all over, I would not feel comfortable as describing it as a genuine antique. It becomes neither modern nor antique, but something in between. Just think - all that history lost forever by being covered with a modern finish.

John

If you put in a new engine and gearbox and fit new body panels to an old car or wagon does it cease to be a Classic Vehicle? Some of them are rebuilt with new made parts representing 80 to 90% of the restoration but they are still classics that would have disappeared from history otherwise.

Guns are restored. I re-browned the barrel on my antique rifle does it cease to be an antique?

I see your point JC about the stock. If it is passed off as an antique that would be wrong as it would affect the value. Do you scrap something because you can only put new parts on? A replacement stock keeps the gun shootable if that is what you want to do with it.

It is when something was manufactured that is the age. Restoration and repairs keep the item as it was when it was made.

[Jerry Cornelius]

Well, it ceases to be an “original” classic vehicle, anyway

[Garvin]

If you put in a new engine and gearbox and fit new body panels to an old car or wagon does it cease to be a Classic Vehicle? Some of them are rebuilt with new made parts representing 80 to 90% of the restoration but they are still classics that would have disappeared from history otherwise.

Guns are restored. I re-browned the barrel on my antique rifle does it cease to be an antique?

I see your point JC about the stock. If it is passed off as an antique that would be wrong as it would affect the value. Do you scrap something because you can only put new parts on? A replacement stock keeps the gun shootable if that is what you want to do with it.

It is when something was manufactured that is the age. Restoration and repairs keep the item as it was when it was made.

At one time you could buy Jaguar Mk2s made entirely from remanufactured parts. They looked just like the originals. But they were decidedly new vehicles, modelled on old ones. Different from old cars with new parts.

At some point a car ceases to have the identity of an old one refreshed. Is that when it has 50%, 75% or 100% of new bits? Hard to say, but you know it when you own it.

Does it matter as long as the owner is happy and knows exactly what he's got? Not really.

[micky2]

As regards to antique firearms and airguns most dealers refer to them as original antique. but point out that they have had any new replacement small part/s or stock grips over a period of their life. still making them original antique guns.

[Josie & John]

If you put in a new engine and gearbox and fit new body panels to an old car or wagon does it cease to be a Classic Vehicle? Some of them are rebuilt with new made parts representing 80 to 90% of the restoration but they are still classics that would have disappeared from history otherwise.

Guns are restored. I re-browned the barrel on my antique rifle does it cease to be an antique?

I see your point JC about the stock. If it is passed off as an antique that would be wrong as it would affect the value. Do you scrap something because you can only put new parts on? A replacement stock keeps the gun shootable if that is what you want to do with it.

It is when something was manufactured that is the age. Restoration and repairs keep the item as it was when it was made.

I don't really have much interest or knowledge on classic cars but something fitted with 80-90% modern parts does not sound like a classic to me - more like a reproduction.

As to the modern re-browning, I think I covered this in post #23

By all means restore something that is in poor condition but let's be honest when describing the item.

John M