Non toxic, is .22 the new .177

[johnnytheboy]

Looking at the options some of the .22 pellets are 10 grains, this is similar to a heavy .177 pellet, does this mean that we will be using more .22 for hunting and having to crack the power up on these guns?

Does this mean that .25 becomes a real hunting option in sub 12ftlbs if the pellets are lighter

[angrybear]

JSB .25 Pb free 16.54gn, my Scorpion sub 12 loves them,
the problem is they're still way too hard & hardly deform at all on impact with a hard target, there's zero expansion on prey, they just punch straight through without pausing.

[bezza xl]

Interesting thought, I'm just about to buy a new fac air rifle, is .25 the way to go?

[Geezer]

Stands to reason that if ammo becomes less efficient, the more efficient calibres will become more attractive.

Unfortunately, making non-lead ammo that performs adequately in typical pellet designs and airgun barrel twists, or at all, is problematic.

[ballisticboy]

The studies I carried out comparing lead and lead free pellets of identical design suggested that, for the same group sizes, the lead free pellets needed to be made more accurately and be a better match to your barrel. When the same errors were modelled for lead and lead free, the group sizes were bigger for the lead free, suggesting the error sources needed to be reduced. The effects of winds and the longer range problems with spiral flight etc. were not considered.

[Geezer]

The effects of winds and the longer range problems with spiral flight etc. were not considered.

But the working assumption would be that those issues are likely to be worse with tin, zinc, etc, compared with lead?

Not to mention the challenge in a - hopefully long? - transition period in the U.K. in which unlicensed guns must stay below the 12/6 limit with the most efficient lead ammunition, and would therefore be carrying less energy (or shedding it more quickly over distance) with non-lead, affecting effective hunting ranges.

And, setting accuracy aside, this would be with a less deformable projectile. Personally, I think projectile deformation at, at least, subsonic velocities without complex design (eg Hydra-Shocks and other clever pistol-range JHPs) is often over-estimated as a factor across small arms, and is largely irrelevant to head shots on typical airgun quarry, because they are head shots, but others differ.

So, sub-12, and at “normal” distances, you appear to be looking at less precision, lower impact energy, and lower potential wound ballistics. And use of a larger calibre, reducing effective range, both by loopier trajectory and reduced precision.

A sensible approach would be to consider the impacts on public health, safety, animal welfare etc of less effective airguns versus more poison, trapping, shotguns, rimfire and so on.

[Otto]

Interesting thought, I'm just about to buy a new fac air rifle, is .25 the way to go?

Had .22 .25 and .30 all fac . I think .22 with slugs is the most expensive efficient as you get more shots per charge and using my m3 impact I am shooting H&N 27g .218 slugs at 990 fps and getting about 100 shots a charge. It bucks the wind well and will do .5 and moa groups at 50m and 1 to 1.5 at 100m.
It also kills all small vermin well . .25 is also very good slightly more power but less shots per fill.

[Otto]

Expensive was a typo

[TonyL]

I wonder how much testing and experimentation is happening behind the scenes right now with the pellet manufacturers and also the rifle / barrel makers and how much communication and cooperation there is between them? There surely MUST be lots happening?

Maybe a long-standing test series of lead free contenders in the magazines will help and give that stable voice we / the makers need to help develop the lead free into something altogether more suitable for the long term?

[BC312]

JSB .25 Pb free 16.54gn, my Scorpion sub 12 loves them,
the problem is they're still way too hard & hardly deform at all on impact with a hard target, there's zero expansion on prey, they just punch straight through without pausing.

Not sure of the exact PB free material they use but i am sure they can manufacture a pellet in the future that could be a little softer just by adding something to the melting pot. Once its known that PB free lead is definitely established and law, hoping its not, then manufactures will continually make improvements over time and new airgun barrels will be made to suite the new projectiles. Pellets and slugs will most probably be matched to the normal weights of the old lead projectiles, so they are bigger in length, so a .22 21 grain slug would match a standard .22 14 grain pellet, not sure what the weight ratio is of lead and lead free.

[angrybear]

Well I just had a play with some JSB Pb free .22, 11.75gn in the Rapid, across the chrono - 663fps ave for 11.47ftlb,
compared to FX (JSB) 16gn 580fps for 11.87ftlb, so nowhere near the relative energy loss of the .25 Pb free in the Scorpion SE.

target
https://ibb.co/k0Fy03N

[maximus]

Well I just had a play with some JSB Pb free .22, 11.75gn in the Rapid, across the chrono - 663fps ave for 11.47ftlb,
compared to FX (JSB) 16gn 580fps for 11.87ftlb, so nowhere near the relative energy loss of the .25 Pb free in the Scorpion SE.

target
https://ibb.co/k0Fy03N

Not bad groups from the pb free, what was the distance AB?

[angrybear]

They were all freehand at 25yds, of course they still suffer the issue of being too hard, I think I need to try a few other brands to see how they compare.

I'm also going to have a more serious go with pellet lube & a rest, and stretch the range out a bit.

[MartinJG]

Looking at the options some of the .22 pellets are 10 grains, this is similar to a heavy .177 pellet, does this mean that we will be using more .22 for hunting and having to crack the power up on these guns?

Does this mean that .25 becomes a real hunting option in sub 12ftlbs if the pellets are lighter

I’ve been having exactly the same thoughts myself. 0.177 lead free are around 5grn which is absurdly light

[flyingfish]

Just shot a non toxic .22 through the MFR
2 inches low at 18m.
Not impressed
I will try them in the TX mk1. Maybe the weight will suit the springer better