Scope levels

[Jesim1]

I’m surprised at some of these responses to be honest, many seem to completely miss the point that a bubble level not only gives you a good help in getting your rifle and scope level - although I agree it’s not perfect (happy to get a perfect workable solution from the doubters mind ) - but it also gives you consistency shot to shot, which is better than no measure of consistency is it not

I guess all those companies like Tier One and Daystate etc are wrong to put these in there products, and those on this thread know far better?

Who would have thought it

James

[I. J.]

Didn't the HFT lads ban spirit leveles for several years because they were an advantage?

[harvey_s]

Who can't see within a degree when your crosshairs aren't level just by looking down the stock

Similarly who can't see when their crosshairs aren't level in the scope within a degree or two

Finally, who can focus on three things at once - Target, Crosshairs and a Spirit level?

Not convinced by them...

[Shed tuner]

Who can't see within a degree when your crosshairs aren't level just by looking down the stock

Similarly who can't see when their crosshairs aren't level in the scope within a degree or two

Finally, who can focus on three things at once - Target, Crosshairs and a Spirit level?

Not convinced by them...

I'm with you on that..

I just adjust my scope so the verticle croshair passes through the centre of the bore.. that's what matters. Level has no useful meaning beyond this. Thus the pellets trajectory follows the crosshair as it arcs downwards.

I kinda get the use of levels for consistency, but as above.. uinless you are benchresting, or possibly prone, it's pretty hard to look at a level whilst aiming and concentrating on everything else.

[Adam77K]

Who can't see within a degree when your crosshairs aren't level just by looking down the stock

Similarly who can't see when their crosshairs aren't level in the scope within a degree or two

Finally, who can focus on three things at once - Target, Crosshairs and a Spirit level?

Not convinced by them...

You'd be surprised, especially on sloping ground how easy it is to be a few degrees out by eye.

I'm with you on that..

I just adjust my scope so the verticle croshair passes through the centre of the bore.. that's what matters. Level has no useful meaning beyond this. Thus the pellets trajectory follows the crosshair as it arcs downwards.

I kinda get the use of levels for consistency, but as above.. uinless you are benchresting, or possibly prone, it's pretty hard to look at a level whilst aiming and concentrating on everything else.

In FT sitting you're in a stable position and it's the work of a second to glance at the level to check. As above it's quite an eye opener sometimes when you think the rifle is level and the bubble is way over one side. I like to set the bubble so I can see it in the field of vision of the non-aiming eye so I don't even need to come out of the aim.

A 5 degree cant will cause a 1" shift of POI at 50 yards. Yes of course on flat ground you'd spot 5 degrees a mile off but in a wood, when the ground is undulating, you can't see the horizon, when your shooting position is on a slope and your target isn't on the same level as you it's a lot harder. Very easy to deceive the eye.

[I. J.]

You'd be surprised, especially on sloping ground how easy it is to be a few degrees out by eye.



In FT sitting you're in a stable position and it's the work of a second to glance at the level to check. As above it's quite an eye opener sometimes when you think the rifle is level and the bubble is way over one side. I like to set the bubble so I can see it in the field of vision of the non-aiming eye so I don't even need to come out of the aim.

A 5 degree cant will cause a 1" shift of POI at 50 yards. Yes of course on flat ground you'd spot 5 degrees a mile off but in a wood, when the ground is undulating, you can't see the horizon, when your shooting position is on a slope and your target isn't on the same level as you it's a lot harder. Very easy to deceive the eye.

Totally agree.
Ive set my scope mounted spirit level up so a quick glance with my nonshooting eye I can check. Its amazing how much a target set at a few degrees can fool you into thinking your level.

[Shed tuner]

Sure, Benchrest, Prone, and FT - I kninda forgot about FT. But yes, anything when you are stable, and can afford to glance at the scope with upsetting anything, or your quarry running off, I do understand the consistency "angle".

[FPoole]

One more reason to use BKL mounts. I have a spot on the countertop that's perfectly level and I sit my BKL mount on this spot. I then put the scope in the rings and use a small level on the scope turret. I've already mocked up the scope for eye relief, so I know where to place it in the mount. I know it's not always dead perfect, but it's always very close.🙂

[4end]

I’m surprised at some of these responses to be honest, many seem to completely miss the point that a bubble level not only gives you a good help in getting your rifle and scope level - although I agree it’s not perfect (happy to get a perfect workable solution from the doubters mind ) - but it also gives you consistency shot to shot, which is better than no measure of consistency is it not

I guess all those companies like Tier One and Daystate etc are wrong to put these in there products, and those on this thread know far better?

Who would have thought it

James

If you think you know far better, fine, but I think you know very little to nothing about levelling. The first consideration in a level is, is it accurate and does it have a kitemark and comply with the current British Standards for levels, if they dont, and I am sure that will be the case with these cheap examples then they are worthless. Scope levels made by the companies you mention are like fishing floats, many made to catch the angler who is daft enough to buy them rather than the fish. It does not matter how many levels you affix to a gun, there is no way of knowing the gun is truly sat level in the stock so anything attached to the gun or scope will potentially give a point of reference but not one that is truly level.

[Jesim1]

You'd be surprised, especially on sloping ground how easy it is to be a few degrees out by eye.

In FT sitting you're in a stable position and it's the work of a second to glance at the level to check. As above it's quite an eye opener sometimes when you think the rifle is level and the bubble is way over one side. I like to set the bubble so I can see it in the field of vision of the non-aiming eye so I don't even need to come out of the aim.

A 5 degree cant will cause a 1" shift of POI at 50 yards. Yes of course on flat ground you'd spot 5 degrees a mile off but in a wood, when the ground is undulating, you can't see the horizon, when your shooting position is on a slope and your target isn't on the same level as you it's a lot harder. Very easy to deceive the eye.

I could not have said it better myself

If you think you know far better, fine, but I think you know very little to nothing about levelling. The first consideration in a level is, is it accurate and does it have a kitemark and comply with the current British Standards for levels, if they dont, and I am sure that will be the case with these cheap examples then they are worthless. Scope levels made by the companies you mention are like fishing floats, many made to catch the angler who is daft enough to buy them rather than the fish. It does not matter how many levels you affix to a gun, there is no way of knowing the gun is truly sat level in the stock so anything attached to the gun or scope will potentially give a point of reference but not one that is truly level.

We can only do what we can only do, there will always be limitations in our equipment, but we can only try our best to do the best we can with what we've got. I'm not a level expert, clearly you are, so if you can offer us all a cheap and workable solution, which can be demonstrated to offer significant gains from what we currently use, then I'd love to have your input

Most comp shooters are waiting on your reply in order to gain points

[4end]

I could not have said it better myself


We can only do what we can only do, there will always be limitations in our equipment, but we can only try our best to do the best we can with what we've got. I'm not a level expert, clearly you are, so if you can offer us all a cheap and workable solution, which can be demonstrated to offer significant gains from what we currently use, then I'd love to have your input

Most comp shooters are waiting on your reply in order to gain points

Buy a plumbob and line. Most competition shooters will have already set their scopes up with a plumbline. I am not a level expert although I have had over 50 years of experience using all sorts of levels some costing many thousands of pounds with none as basically crap as the ones offered to the gullible for so-called rifle levels.

[I. J.]

To me, personally, it's not really about scope reticule being perfectly horizontal - it's about consistency. If I am canting slightly I want to cant slightly consistently. I only shoot 50M paper targets these days so cross-over isn't a problem and yes, sometimes the targets aren't perfectly square in their holders but with the use of a scope mounted spirit level (checked with my nonshooting eye) my rifle is held consistent for each and every shot.