Our stance against the lead ban Suggestions sort to fight this proposal

[BC312]

The facts are all on the web to prove the HSE is talking a load of cobblers. Lead is mined from the ground even in this country. So when you fire your nuclear lead pellet into the field or fire you one ounce of buckshot into the air and it lands in the ground it goes back to where it once came from. Once again we are being used as scapegoats to destroy our pastime, being blamed through the madness of killers who the police didn't do their bit to prevent blatant mistakes happen and be scapegoats to disarm us through political means and environmental lies. The trouble is will our political elite to believe the facts or tow the Boris eco line to make themselves feel good they done something at our expense.

[prosport.177]

I have a feeling all the do gooders in the world that want anything harmful band are doing so in a hope that they can keep getting on those polluting airplanes to their well deserved holiday breaks abroad.
Most likely they drive battery cars that polluting coal power stations run to produce their I am cleaner than you smug smile as they drive past!
The world has gone topsy turvy

[airRookie]

Guys, If the indoor clubs will be allowed to have lead projectiles shot, providing a certain percentage of pellets is recovered, then it means that lead pellets would be allowed to be sold to their members, and thus would still be manufactured?

1.What would then stop one from becoming a member and getting pellets for garden plinking?

2. Has anyone tried pellet moulds? In theory thats a neverending supply of lead pellets.

3. Stockpile on ammo before the ban in live?

[HW777]

That will never happen, the only way to fight is via the current consultation process.

Repeat this back to yourself in a German accent

We could have won the war if not for all the neigh sayers

[howm58]

I entirely agree with views that lead in its solid form is not a particularly hazardous material, especially when compared to our current plastic epidemic.
Before I retired I used to design & produce stamping dies for the badge trade. Before the steel dies were hardened we would send (in the post) a 'lead proof' (lead stamping) to the customer for approval of the design. Of course they would be informed it was lead & to wash hands after handling, but this was entirely normal practice from badge manufacturers.
The HSE identified that our process of melting the lead was the problem. Melting from a ladle on a blowtorch had little or no control over temperature & fumes produced (particularly when overheated) were quite dangerous. We had to create conditions where temperature was controlled & fumes were collected away from the operator, but allowed to carry on using lead for our processes.
It seems to me that the 'powers that be' are looking at the wrong products for lead pollution. Solid lead products are fairly inert in themselves & produce little pollution (unless ingested), it is the use of lead by industrial processes that probably contributes more than anything.
I also had my handguns taken from me by the authorities some years ago when they were made section 5. Home Secretary said at the time "we are getting all the guns off our streets". That's worked well, hasn't it!!! Unfortunately with only 50,000 or so handgun FAC holders the resistance to the ban was too little, too late.
To sum up, DO NOT trust any politician to tell the truth & get as many independent scientific studies done as possible in the meantime. These should prove that Shooting Sports produce a tiny fraction of what is claimed.
Advertise the advantages of belonging to a body controlling whatever facet of the sport you enjoy. Don't most of them provide insurance cover as part of the membership?

[Farsight]

All potentially viable stuff. However, when I posted I must admit that I was unaware of the fact that the anti-lead lobby seem very much to be basing their argument on the supposedly widespread lead poisoning by actual ingestion of shot by birds and mammals - no mention of reptiles , amphibia or insects that I could see . I must thank AngryBear for the link to Mark Crudgington's article, which shows the nub of what is going on.
So it seems to be about wildlife swallowing lumps of lead rather than just somehow coming into contact with it ; the onus would appear to be on us to prove that this claim is a gross exaggeration.

[BC312]

Guys, If the indoor clubs will be allowed to have lead projectiles shot, providing a certain percentage of pellets is recovered, then it means that lead pellets would be allowed to be sold to their members, and thus would still be manufactured?

1.What would then stop one from becoming a member and getting pellets for garden plinking?

2. Has anyone tried pellet moulds? In theory thats a neverending supply of lead pellets.

3. Stockpile on ammo before the ban in live?

I have used the LEM moulds, they work fine but the need to be put in a die so the ends are shaved off just as you do with swaged pellets to get best results and uniformity. Wished they made more moulds and types.

[bighit]

Not watched it but he supposedly has figures .

https://youtu.be/Z67xVg-EhoY

[angrybear]

That AAR is well worth watching.

[Geezer]

1. Reply to the consultation. Which is scandalously bad. Tell it that it is.
2. Join/lobby BASC. Other organisations exist. Though have less clout.
3. Write to your local councillors, MPs, Ministers, etc.

Throughout, use a mix of facts, and genuine factual ignorance.

[HW777]

I have used the LEM moulds, they work fine but the need to be put in a die so the ends are shaved off just as you do with swaged pellets to get best results and uniformity. Wished they made more moulds and types.

There is a one man band called Pellet maker, he must have extremely full order books, his web site while still running has not been taking orders for well over a year now.

I wonder what the cost would be if LEM mould were to come back in production ?

This proposal for a lead ban is just another way to control the interest in shooting sports.

[rockdrill]

Lead projectiles don't leach into the ground, dissolve into a liquid form or break down into dust. If you go out and metal detect and find a lead bullet the immediate surrounding soil is not contaminated, the lead from the projectile stays within itself.

Is that supposition based upon appearance of the finds or have you taken soil samples from where they were discovered and had them analysed?

[BC312]

Is that supposition based upon appearance of the finds or have you taken soil samples from where they were discovered and had them analysed?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...1104005801.htm

Lead in the form of petrol lead or chemical lead in industrial practices is worse.Once the lead has oxidised, the oxidisation stops further deterioration. Remember most house holds have lead gullies in their roofing, most houses had lead pipe work. You have to watch out for some reports on lead contamination especially if such organisations are trying to ban something ie stop an activity, as they can be misleading in the sense that they may exaggerate the contamination onto shooting etc when the area in question was already polluted by other forms of lead.

[angrybear]

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...1104005801.htm

Lead in the form of petrol lead or chemical lead in industrial practices is worse.Once the lead has oxidised, the oxidisation stops further deterioration. Remember most house holds have lead gullies in their roofing, most houses had lead pipe work. You have to watch out for some reports on lead contamination especially if such organisations are trying to ban something ie stop an activity, as they can be misleading in the sense that they may exaggerate the contamination onto shooting etc when the area in question was already polluted by other forms of lead.

Be very careful in what you quote, the 6th paragraph down states the lead contamination does not leach down but remains in the top few inches,
that is where the new UK report argues that it contaminates the topsoil & grass/crops & in turn animals grazing on that land,
so while you think it supports us, actually it supports those calling for a ban

[JLB]

Is there any data regarding domestic/sporting use and military ? I would think given that the planet we all live on has a perpensity for killing one another, in comparison, domestic use must be a lot less. The ban will not affect military use I'm led to believe. Makes a bit of a mockery of it all then.

John